According to your Calvinist teacher(s), whom I am currently reading about via this enlightening criticism of your doctrines, you all teach that God predestines people to sin. Thus, aka, God makes people sin.
You say God chooses people to be saved, so why would you not say that God chooses which person will sin?
Is that not what you believe?
In which case, doesn't that make God an Evil God who makes Evil happen in the world?
That takes out the responsibility of men for their own action and saying that GOD causes the sin/evil in this world.
So God caused the Holocaust. God caused 9/11. etc. etc.
That is what ya'lls teachers teach. From what I have read.
If you're wondering what book I'm reading it is this one:
Against Calvinism : Rescuing God's Reputation From Radical Reformed Theology
Author: Olson, Roger E.
So, in conclusion, if you believe that, that God makes man sin (as well as make man choose to believe upon His son), you are contradicting scripture that says God is Love, God is good and Holy.
Note, that when I say that you say that God makes people sin, I am not saying that when God punishes people that is evil, no, that is Justice, and God is an all JUST God as well as an ALL GOOD God.
Now let me hear your remarks and your defense of your very own belief and tell me how it makes sense and why you worship a God that (let's say), made that man kill your child or some other atrocious action and that that man did not commit that sin HIMSELF, by HIS OWN WILL, that God only KNEW about, but was able to use for His glory in his mysterious way, but at the same time, not FORCING that man to commit such a sin, but allowing it to happen for all things work for the good of those who Love God.
Please know I am not pointing out these horrid views of Calvinism to condemn or humiliate those who hold onto those views, but to rebuke and correct and give a defense of the hope that I have in Jesus, whom I chose on my free will to follow.
Is God the author of Evil/Sin?
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Miss E, Jul 27, 2020.
Page 1 of 10
-
-
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So tell me what happened. Did God sit there wringing His celestial hands, saying, "How I wish I could stop it, but I'm just not as strong as these awful humans." Or did He say, "I would stop it, but I gave free will to these humans. It was a terrible mistake, but I promised and I can't go back on it now." -
What do you believe? I'd like to know. -
And definitely not the second, because God makes no mistakes. But God, in His sovereign glory, can make all things, bad and good (that men choose to do good or bad), work together for the good of those who choose to love Him and make Him their Lord. :)
Why don't you just fess up to the fact you believe in a God that makes evil happen? -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (Romans 8:28)
That's not a Calvinistic doctrine, yes, some make it out to be, but out of context and out of what the scripture meant for it to mean. :)
Are you a Calvinist? Why are you attacking me? Why don't you just answer the question in the OP? Do you believe God makes evil happen or that man makes it happen but God allows it, but that doesn't make Him force anyone to do an evil action?
Please answer and stop throwing around mocking and insults like an upset child. :rolleyes: -
It would be like beginning a discussion with "Since those who believe that man has the Free Will to accept or deny Jesus Christ believe that they are saved by their personal holiness, good works and sinless perfection ... "
Any discussion that begins that far out in the weeds, is never going to get back on the fairway, so aiming for the green is pointless.
Take the penalty and start over. -
Here is a good place to start:
Is God equally active in causing the salvation of the elect and the damnation of the reprobate? -
And I Never said personal holiness/good works/sinless perfection gets you to heaven. DUMB! Grace given by God in the person of Jesus Christ whom we have to accept freely gets you into heaven. :p -
check your facts jack -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
For example:
Chapter III. 'God hath [Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11] decreed in Himself from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things whatsoever come to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin [James 1:13-17; 1 John 1:5] nor hath fellowship with any therein, nor is violence offered to the will of the Creature, nor yet is the liberty, or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather [Acts of the Apostles 4:27-28; John 19:11] established, in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power, and faithfulness [ Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5] in accomplishing His decree.' The Scripture proofs are in the original.
-
You shouldn't mock period. And the Bible says not to tease either. What does the proverb say?
“Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death, is the man who deceives his neighbor, and says, 'I was only joking! (Proverbs 26:18-19)
I read who I choose to read, I don't want to waste time reading your false doctrine, all I'm pointing out is that you have CALVINISTS (i don't care what DEGREE they are) that say they believe in the OP i stated. What say you? If you don't agree, great! But where did this Calvinist get this nonsense from and how are you going to rebuke it as I am? -
Do not give me paraphrases from ANTI-Calvinists of what Calvinists believe. [Unless you want me to ask you why Free Will makes you think that you can save yourself without the need for Christ?] If only our opponents get to say what you believe, then I don't think you will like what the ANTI-Free Will authors say you believe. -
and I know Calvinism is a false doctrine, stating that God forces man to choose whether he believes upon His son or not. (which is ridiculous)
Is THAT what you believe? Because if so, it is wrong and I heavily rebuke it. -
-
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
-
No, Roger Olsen is not a Calvinist, he is rebuking Calvinism. Why would I read something a Calvinist wrote? I've got the basic gist of your believes and I don't care to read any more out of context scriptures and lies on what my God does or doesn't do. -
So please, stop trying to earn heaven with your personal holiness and just accept the free gift of a Sovereign God. I am only trying to help you and show you "Free Willers" the truth of the Bible. I just want to save you from the evil "Free Will Heresy". (See, I am just as sincere and concerned a Christian as you are.)
Page 1 of 10