Brother, this is a form of mocking! I know you don't mean it that way, but, it is splitting the hair when it comes to mocking another's gift! I use my language in the privacy of my prayer closet, and as for interpreting my words, I trust that the Spirit does that as Pau; teaches in Romans 8:26. In fact here is a good link about how God helps us in prayer - Four Ways the Holy Spirit Intercedes for Us
Is the pendulum swinging in a different direction?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Aug 14, 2017.
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Do you have a private, prayer language?
Poll closed Aug 14, 2019.
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Yes ...
3 vote(s)17.6% -
No ...
14 vote(s)82.4% -
I do have a prayer language, but fear the wrath of others, so I keep it to myself!
0 vote(s)0.0%
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righteousdude2 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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righteousdude2 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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In my experience I have found there are three sources of so-called "tongues" today.
1. About 90% are just fake.
2. 5% may be mental illness. (Traumatic head injury has been known to cause glossolalia).
3. 5% may be of Satanic origin to deceive the speaker.
If a person is speaking in an unknown language, a language he does not understand, how does that person know he is not cursing God and blaspheming Christ? After all he does not understand what he is saying! -
righteousdude2 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
- OR -אני לא שם אותך על הקלדת לשון אחרת (שפה), אז למה אתה שם את מי לדבר בלשונות, למטה?
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righteousdude2 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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1 Corinthians 14:4-5,18
[4]A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.
[5]I wish you could all speak in tongues, but even more I wish you could all prophesy. For prophecy is greater than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.
[18]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you. -
righteousdude2 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Again, I trust in what Paul said in Romans 8:26 - "And likewise also the Spirit helps our weakness; for we know not how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself makes entreaty for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Jubilee Bible 2000
"At the same time the Spirit also helps us in our weakness, because we don't know how to pray for what we need. But the Spirit intercedes along with our groans that cannot be expressed in words." from GOD'S WORD Translation
Eph. 6:18 tells us to, "Pray in the Spirit at all times, with every kind of prayer and petition. To this end, stay alert with all perseverance in your prayers for all the saints."
Moving forward - Paul tells us clearly in 1 Cor. 14:5, "I wish that all of you could speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified."
Finally, I agree with Paul when he tells the church as follows, "You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other one is not edified. 18I thank God that I speak in tongues morethan all of you. 19But in the church, I would rather speak five coherent words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.…" 1 Cor. 14:17-19 BSB
In closing, brother Cassidy, I never said that I spoke tongues in church! I have clearly stated that I use a tongue when praying, privately, and it is not for sure, that the Apostle Paul did or didn't also use tongues in private prayer, which is assumed in his teachings above! And if he prayed with a tongue, there is no proof that those who followed him and learned from him, didn't in fact do the very same!
The truth is, everything that you have so professionally laid out as an argument, based upon your opinions and views, is exactly that. YOUR VIEWS and OPINIONS! You sir, have no more certainty of what you speak, then those of us who experienced and use a prayer language! And I believe that your views should come with that kind of DISCLAIMER!
I appreciate greatly, your knowledge and education in theology,
but, there are going to be opposing opinions and views.
Heck, even doctors disagree on how to treat physical or emotional problems. That is why a person who uses a D.O. should be aware,
that a Doctor of Osteopathy sees and does things differently
than let's say a M.D. -
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When I became a Christian (1979) I attended an Assembly of God church in Harrison, NJ. A "prophetess" came to speak and baptize people in the Holy Spirit (the second blessing), accompanied by receiving the "gift of tongues". Forget for a moment that Eph. 1:3 tells us that we have every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, in Christ, ergo we lack nothing for the practice of our Christian faith. Intuitively I knew that there was something wrong praying in an unintelligible language that my mind did not understand. Even though I was a new Christian, I understood plainly from the Bible that tongues was speaking a known language you did not previously know. As I matured as a believer I was taught hermeneutical principles by a godly pastor. He taught me that when there is one plain, normative passage on a matter, and one vague passage on the same matter, interpret that vague passage through the plain, normative passage. Acts 2 is the plain, normative passage on tongues. The tongues spoken on the day of Pentecost were known languages. The tongues spoken in 1 Corinthians 14 are vague. Is it an ecstatic language? Is it a known language? Christians on both sides argue. The plain, normative text in Acts 2 adds clarity.
Another a problem with a private prayer language is that a) there is no interpreter b) there is no warrant in scripture to pray in such a manner c) Rom. 8:26 is grossly ripped out of context by Continualists d) there is no benefit to praying in a private prayer language that your own native tongue cannot provide. When Paul wrote " In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;" (Rom. 8:26), he was simply saying that because of our sin and human frailty, we sometimes do not even know what to pray. I have been like this when broken by my sin and have experienced something profoundly emotional. God knows our heart even when we do not know what to say.
Back to that "prophetess". I was told that Christians who receive the second blessing and speak in tongues are closer to God. They have something that other Christians do not. I understood that this created a caste system within the church. Verbalized or not, there was this reality that "I have something you do not." When I came to that realization I left charismania. -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
'As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him..........For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him' (Colossians 2:6, 9).
Spiritual gifts are not given for the benefit of the recipients, but 'for the equipping of the saints, for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ' (Ephesians 4:12). I find it hard to see how 'tongues' can accomplish this. -
The Corinthian church was a mess and should not be our mentor regarding the gift of tongues. -
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I am awaiting your knowledgeable and erudite exposition of where I am wrong regarding the Greek grammar in question. Show that "now" is not an adverb. Or show that "abideth" (remains) is not the verb being modified, or that "abideth" (remains) is not in the present tense. -
Text does not say "now, no new believers will be gifted." -
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