Is the Pope as he claims “God on Earth”.

If true, that makes me part of the 100 (although "hate" is a bit strong, I strongly dislike the false gospel of synergistic salvation and God choosing "the Church" rather than God choosing His "individual children" that you hold and teach). However, I suspect that there are more than 100 molested children that hate the Catholic Church for what they correctly perceive the Priests did to them and the Bishops that shuffled them to new congregations facilitated.

[Note: I am not blaming the RCC for the actions of the individuals, that is for God to decide, I am only challenging the number of only 100 people hating the Church for honest reasons since there is some Church culpability for enabling the sin to continue.]

 

LOL, our difference is we revere the living Christ who is seated at the throne and who places us with him while you perpetually place Jesus on the cross, never quite finishing what he started. Hence, you cannot ever say or fully believe you are saved.

Ephesians 1:15-23 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

 

Seems to be deliberate attempts to derail, but here appears to be a good list on it...

"The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh." (Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895, pg. 15, published in London by J. S. Phillips)



"Against this background of love towards Holy Church, 'the pillar and bulwark of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for 'THE LORD POPE', the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called 'SWEET CHRIST ON EARTH'." (Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation on the Consecrated Life and Its Mission in the Church and in the World, to the bishops and clergy, religious orders and congregations, societies of apostolic life, secular institutes, and all the faithful, given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, March 25, 1996)



"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God and the vicar of God." (Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary)



"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope." (On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17)



"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." (Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous)



"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." (the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII Cum inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)



"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions." (Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', p.26)



"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth." (Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958)



"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." (Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653)"..Antichrist Speaks - Quotes from Roman Catholic Church

 

Anglicans do and they are nearer Rome than they are to the reformer. Probably Methodists, but I don't know of any other. Anglican, like Romanist bishops wear the mitre of Dagan and carry the crook of Osiris.

 

You are the ones doing the whining not us. Its a easy matter resolved by self confidence.


Under your theology God doesn't save you because he loves you. He loves you because you got picked out with spiritually racist skin, a master race. Christian equivalent of Nazis. He even plans on toasting Jews again only this time for an eternity.

 

Oh that is your theology is it? Remember that Hitler and his cronies were Roman Catholics.

 

Wait a minute.
Can you back that up?

The mitre has a history that traces directly to Dagon worship and is not just a silly hat from another historic time period.
The crook is the crook of Osiris and not just a shepherd's crook.

If you cannot prove a direct connection, but just a remote physical similarity, then the Bishop is not the only one carrying around a "crock" to control the people. ;)

 

Well, as long as we are all engaging in honest dialog. :Whistling

 

Wow, such a hateful statement against God's sovereignty. You have called God, who tells us he chooses, elects and predestined those for whom he died (we have shared the vast number of passages where God makes this point) a Nazi.

Utilyan, you cannot undo what God tells us about his Sovereign election. What I note is that you honestly think all humanity is good and therefore God should select purely based upon human goodness and intent toward being good. You cannot accept that all human righteousness is a filthy rags before a holy God.
Utilyan, no one can help you as you obviously reject what God says about the human condition and require that God must judge purely upon works and may the best man win the competition.
It does not surprise me in the least that you cannot say you are saved, utilyan. Indeed, your theology completely misses the mark and is void of the gospel of grace.

 

If you look at old pictures of popes, The mitre is sloped towards the front and actually has the eyes of the fish god in it.

 

Balderdash.
It is just a silly looking hat. The world is full of silly looking hats.

1. It doesn't really look that much like a fish.
2. It has no scales (like the cult of Dagon would have)
3. It came into use over a thousand years after Dagon worship had ceased, making a direct connection unlikely (even if there was a resemblance)
4. There are no eyes. Most are plain (or have a cross) and some are COVERED with ornamentation. You are just seeing "eyes" where you want to see eyes.

Stick with legitimate criticisms.
This sort of stuff hurts YOUR credibility, not theirs.

 

Well, here is a interesting description of the Pagan System of Sun Worship from the time of Babylon....

"..The Babylonian system of worship has essentially been maintained to this day and can be seen in some form or another. The ancient Chaldeans worshipped a pantheon of male and female gods representing the sun god. There were largely three aspects to this system of sun worship, representing the father, mother, and the son. These were the god Bel or Merodach, Ninus the son, who was also worshipped as Tammuz, and the female goddess Rhea who was also worshipped as Ishtar, Astarte, or Beltis representing the mother. She was also referred to as the 'queen of heaven' and the 'wrath subduer'. Mother and child worship was the basis of the ancient religions. And in the various religions of the world, the same system of worship was perpetuated under different names. In Egypt they were worshipped as Isis and Osiris or Horus, in India as Isi and Iswara, in China and Japan as the mother goddess Shing-moo with child, in Greece as Ceres or Irene and Plutus, in Rome as Fortuna and Jupitor-puer, or Venus and Adurnis, and in Scandinavia as Frigga and Balder. The mother and child were worshipped in Babylon as Ishtar and Tammuz, and in Phoenicia, as Ashtoreth and Baal. Moreover, the child was worshipped as both husband and son of the mother goddess.

The son, or male component, of the mother-child deities, is the counterfeit Saviour, and thus the counterfeit of Jesus Christ. All the titles pertaining to Jesus were also used for the child in ancient religions. Examples are: Zoroaster was also referred to as the 'seed'; of the woman, Mitras (the Persian sungod) was referred to as the Saviour, Dionysus as the sin-bearer, Bacchus as the branch, Vishna as the victim-man, Osiris as the king of kings.

The system of worship has its origin in the legend of Nimrod, and his wife Semiramus. Nimrod was an apostate and rebelled against God, like his father Cush. Eventually Nimrod was put to death for his evil deeds, and according to the ancient patriarchal system, parts of his body were sent to various cities as a warning. His wife Semiramus fled, but spread the rumour that he had ascended to heaven, where he had become one with the sun. When Semiramus later gave birth to a son, she claimed that it was the reincarnation of her deified husband, and that he had returned as Saviour of the human race. She was later deified as the mother of god who had ascended into heaven as the queen of heaven. In the various cultures, the same basic deities were then worshipped under different names.

.. This system of worship has been perpetuated throughout generations, and in our day forms the basis of all the religions such as Earth Religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Catholicism. In the mysteries of Catholicism, sun worship reaches its highest form. The names of the gods have changed, but the system of worship is the same.

As the sungod (Nimrod) plunged into the waters of the river (Euphrates), so the reincarnated son plunged into the waters of the womb to be worshipped as the saviour. The cycle of the sun represents this ancient cycle of the sun rising (Brahma), the sun at the meridian (Siva) and the sun setting (Vishnu). At night, the sun rests in the womb of the ocean in the darkness of the underworld (representing the death and suffering of the sungod). As god of the ocean (Poseidon, Neptune), he was also worshipped as the fishgod Dagon (Dag = fish, On = the name of sungod as he was called in Egypt) who had plunged into the waters of the womb to be reborn. The most prominent form of worship in Babylon was dedicated to Dagon, later known as Ichthys, or the fish. In Chaldean times, the head of the church was the representative of Dagon, he was considered to be infallible, and was addressed as 'Your Holiness'. Nations subdued by Babylon had to kiss the ring and slipper of the Babylonian god-king. The same vestments of paganism, the fish mitre and robes of the priests of Dagon are still worn in some churches and the same powers and the same titles are claimed to this day by the Dalai Lama of Buddhism, and the Pope.

When Constantine married paganism and Christianity, the door was opened for certain beliefs, traditions and doctrines to creep into the early church, and they were gradually introduced into the system of worship..." excerpted with permission from The Wine of Babylon by Professor Walter J. Veith....https://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_end-time_Babylon_woman_Revelation#!

 

Please particular, Under the logic of your theology, I am acting precisely as God planned me to act. You should take it up with him since its his choice not mine whether you will ever find any agreement from me.

You don't allow God the freedom of his sovereignty. You say the only way he can do things his way is my way.


The funny thing is you don't deny him actin like a Nazi and then whine about us noticing.

You could not argue he is nothing like a nazi......thats how pathetic your foundation is.

Whereas if you were more hard core as some other Calvinist are, you would answer Yes and so what?


All "Human Condition" is void under the presence of God. God decide whats in play here just fine.

When God is involved there is no variables involved.

"It does not surprise me in the least that you cannot say you are saved, utilyan."

IT DOES SURPRISE me that YOU WOULD CHECK if you are saved, SINCE YOU are suppose to TRUST GOD in the first place.

I rather Love God and Trust God and be damned just to put this point across to you.

Not about works, you could have ended all world hunger today, even gave your life. If your devoid of love or still sin, you are still in the wrong.


Your position is so easily proven right..... show us one person who HATES GOD and is Saved.

You cannot because this GOOD WORK is REQUIRED.

 

Source-less pseudo history

30 bishops before Constantine existed. He was baptized as Arian under bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia.

Eusebius of Nicomedia (died 341) was an Arian priest, the man who baptised Constantine the Great. He was a bishop of Berytus (modern-day Beirut) in Phoenicia. He was later made the bishop of Nicomedia, where the Imperial court resided. He lived finally in Constantinople from 338 up to his death.


Arians are NON-TRINITARIAN. They believe Jesus was created.


The STANCE for trinity was hanging on a thread.----> Athanasius of Alexandria.

He was known as Athanasius Contra Mundum (Latin for Athanasius Against the World).

He's the Catholic link.

Athanasius is the first person to identify the same 27 books of the New Testament that are in use today.


He was the only link to trinity and the bible.

You do not want to know what he believes and practices.

As the old adage goes the more you learn history the less protestant you get.

Actual Historical Sources can be found:
Constantine the Great and Christianity - Wikipedia
Arianism - Wikipedia
Athanasius of Alexandria - Wikipedia

 

Keep up the great work you are doing here!

Another important point about their theology...

---> If you come off the assembly line already elect, grace is futile!

 

Saul, later called Paul, hated God and yet God chose to save him.

Utilyan, your bitterness is palpable. It's like screaming and gnashing of teeth when you speak.

You show that you have no understanding of depravity and the complete dependence we all have on God choosing to graciously redeem.
Instead, you speak as one who thinks he is enabled and deserves God's love purely because it's your right.
But, God tells us that no one deserves his love, except God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. All else deserves his just wrath.
Only...you cannot accept that truth and when it is spoken you hate it with all your being.
I can only pray for you.

 

Yeah, I need to study my history, lets see...
"In the likeness of Apollo Constantine recognized himself as the saving figure to whom would be granted "rule of the whole world". This religious shift is paralleled by a similar shift in Constantine's coinage. In his early reign, the coinage of Constantine advertised Mars as his patron. Mars was replaced by Sol Invictus, a god conventionally identified with Apollo. There is little reason to believe that either the dynastic connection or the divine vision are anything other than fiction, but their proclamation strengthened Constantine's claims to legitimacy and increased his popularity.

Constantine was Roman Emperor from 306 to 337 and interesting his official imperial title was 'Imperator Caesar Flavius Constantine Augustus, the pious, the fortunate, the undefeated'. After 312, he added MAXIMVS "the greatest", and after 325 replaced "undefeated" with VICTOR, as ''invictus'' reminded many of Sol Invictus, the Sun God and some have even made him a saint and is known as 'Saint Constantine'.

In A.D. 330 Emperor Constantine inaugurated Constantinople as his capital on the site of the Greek city of Byzantium. It was at this time we find the pagan sun worship replacing the true worship of God, and history relates how 'Constantine the Great' and the fact that he, as Roman Emperor, commanded the civil observance of Sunday. The Sunday law of Constantine had nothing to do with Christianity however, it was purely a political move in keeping with the history of the 'Byzantine' changes as to the most advantageous position.

We find that "He enjoined the observance, or rather forbade the public desecration of Sunday, not under the name of Sabbatum, but under its old astrological and heathen title, Dies Solis. familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to the worshippers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians. There is no reference whatsoever in his law either to the fourth commandment or to the resurrection of Christ.

Constantine worshipped all the gods especially Apollo the god of the sun. He held the title Pontifex Maximus which was the title of the high priest of paganism. These and other considerations make it clear that Constantine's form of Christianity was actually a modified version of mystery religion. The Mystery of Iniquity that had been at work since the time of Babel.

This same system, characterized by the shrouding of truth in secrecy and the manipulation of the truth in order to achieve it's ends, set out, in the third century, to combine paganism with Christianity. These goals were partially accomplished through the proclamation on March 7th 321 A.D. of Constantine the Great, stating:" All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon The Venerable Day of the Sun." http://www.bibleplus.org/sabbath/sabbath-comm.htm#COMMENTARY:%20A%20HISTORICAL%20PERSPECTIVE

Shortly after he made his sun-day proclamation, Constantine ordered his wife and eldest son murdered and had a bronze statue of himself set atop a tall column as Apollo, the sun god. Do we see a pattern...

 

First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine -

March, 321 A.D.
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)
Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p. 380, note 1.

Transition from Pagan to Christian
[p. 122] This legislation by Constantine probably bore no relation to Christianity; it appears, on the contrary, that the emperor, in his capacity of Pontifex Maximus, was only adding the day of the Sun, the worship of which was then firmly [p. 123] established in the Roman Empire, to the other ferial days of the sacred calendar…

[p. 270] What began, however, as a pagan ordinance, ended as a Christian regulation; and a long series of imperial decrees, during the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries, enjoined with increasing stringency abstinence from labour on Sunday.
Source: Hutton Webster, Rest Days, pp. 122, 123, 270. Copyright 1916 by The Macmillan Company, New York.
Yes, the title Pontifex Maximus is pagan, derived from the Sun worshipping Roman Empire, and the source of the papal title of Pontiff.

Pagan Festivals and Church Policy
The Church made a sacred day of Sunday … largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.
Source: Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, p. 145. Copyright 1928 by G. p. Putnam’s Sons, New York.

 

History reveals what happened...
"Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical observance of that day is known to have been ordained, is the edict of Constantine, 321 A.D."--"Chamber's Encyclopedia," article, "Sabbath."

Here is the first Sunday Law in history, a legal enactment by Constantine 1 (reigned 306-331): "On the Venerable Day of the Sun ["venerabili die Solis"--the sacred day of the Sun] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost--Given the 7th day of March, [A.D. 321], Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time."--The First Sunday Law of Constantine 1, in "Codex Justinianus," lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Phillip Schaff "History of the Christian Church," Vol. 3, p. 380.

"This [Constantine's Sunday decree of March, 321] is the 'parent' Sunday law making it a day of rest and release from labor. For from that time to the present there have been decrees about the observance of Sunday which have profoundly influenced European and American society. When the Church became a part of State under the Christian emperors, Sunday observance was enforced by civil statutes, and later when the Empire was past, the Church, in the hands of the papacy, enforced it by ecclesiastical and also by civil enactments."--Walter W. Hyde, "Paganism to Christianity in the Roman Empire," 1946, p. 261.
"Constantine's decree marked the beginning of a long, though intermittent series of imperial decrees in support of Sunday rest."-- Vincent J. Kelly, "Forbidden Sunday and Feast-Day Occupations," 1943, p. 29.

"Constantine labored at this time untiringly to unite the worshipers of the old and the new into one religion. All his laws and contrivances are aimed at promoting this amalgamation of religions. He would by all lawful and peaceable means melt together a purified heathenism and a moderated Christianity . . . Of all his blending and melting together of Christianity and heathenism, none is more easy to see through than this making of his Sunday law: The Christians worshiped their Christ, the heathen their Sun-god . . . [so they should now be combined."--H.G. Heggtveit, "illustreret Kirkehistorie," 1895, p. 202.

"If every Sunday is to be observed joyfully by the Christians on account of the resurrection, then every Sabbath on account of the burial is to be regarded in execration [cursing] of the Jews."--Pope Sylvester, quoted by S.R.E. Humbert, "Adversus Graecorum Calumnias," in J.P. Migne, "Patrologie," p. 143. [Sylvester (A.D. 314-337) was the pope at the time Constantine 1 was Emperor.]

"All things whatsoever that were prescribed for the [Bible] Sabbath, we have transferred them to the Lord's day, as being more authoritative and more highly regarded and first in rank, and more honorable than the Jewish Sabbath."--Bishop Eusebius, quoted in J.P. Migne, "Patrologie," p. 23, 1169-1172. [Eusebius of Caesarea was a high-ranking Catholic leader during Constantine's lifetime.]

"These Gentile Christians of Rome and Alexandria began calling the first day of the week 'the Lord's day.' This was not difficult for the pagans of the Roman Empire who were steeped in sun worship to accept, because they [the pagans] referred to their sun-god as their 'Lord.' "--EM. Chalmers, "How Sunday Came Into the Christian Church," p. 3.

The following statement was made 100 years after Constantine's Sunday Law was passed: "Although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this."--Socrates Scholasticus, quoted in "Ecclesiastical History," Book 5, chap. 22. [Written shortly after A.D. 439.]

"The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria."--Hermias Sozomen, quoted in "Ecclesiastical History," vii, 19, in "A Select Library of Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers," 2nd Series, Vol. 2, p. 390. [Written soon after AD. 415.]

"Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church, but with a rigor and solemnity gradually diminishing until it was wholly discontinued."--Lyman Coleman, "Ancient Christianity Exemplified" chap. 26, sec. 2, p. 527.

"Constantine's [five Sunday Law] decrees marked the beginning of a long though intermittent series of imperial decrees in support of Sunday rest."--"A History of the Councils of the Church," Vol. 2, p. 316.

"What began, however, as a pagan ordinance, ended as a Christian regulation; and a long series of imperial decrees, during the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries, enjoined with increasing stringency abstinence from labor on Sunday."--Huttan Webster, "Rest Days," pp. 122-123, 210.

 

We are already butting heads with a emperor who doesn't believe trinity.

Give us an example of any LEGIT christian prior.

You might as well argue Christians never existed till they popped up in the united states 1800 years later.

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)


My point being you can't prove the existence of any christian existence between biblical stated since its required of you, till 1800 years later.

Naming any christian between that existed prior to Constantine to those biblically mentioned, would be like having your faith taking a shotgun in its mouth and pulling the trigger twice.