Mohler has the vision and intelligence to know the SBC in not the center of the Christian universe. He writes his blog for the benefit of all who will read it, not just for the SBC. In fact his blog is in no way sponsored by the SBC or the SBTS. It belongs to Albert Mohler. And the Christian community as a whole needs to know about people like Bishop Holloway, and be warned that Christianity is under attack both from within and without.
Is there a right of private interpretation of scripture?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Zenas, May 26, 2009.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If there is any honesty in you you would just fess up. You constantly harp on individuals and the convention because you do not think they are making disciples. It is broken record with you. You have questioned me about it as well. You sit at your computer screen and make judgments about lives you know nothing of. But if course you have lived near everyone well known in the evangelical Christian arena. You have lived near Barna and McCarthur and so you know all the pertinent details to make judgments on their ministries. The empty statements are yours to be sure. It is empty to say you know someone who knows some one who knows them. It is empty to say you have listened to x number of preachers from McCarthurs ministry and now you know his ministry. I am quite sure you have enough to worry about in your own little world. -
It is easy to grow an organization to gain nickels and noses. That is very easy. Many books are written about the latest and greatest gimmick to do that. The tough job is to invest our lives in the lives of others. Even statistics will show the rewards of making disciples far outweight the numbers a man who is great at evangelism could win if he shared his faith 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Can you quote me where I ever said that nobody in the convention is making disciples. I know that is wrong because I associate with some who are. I also do not believe there is any convention or denomination as a whole that is making disciples. There are pastors and churches which are ungodly and there are those which are godly and intentionally making disciples. I know of one former Baptist church that trains people to make disciples who are from all over the world.
You are free to question me all you want. If I were being considered as a laeader in your church I wouild hope you would ask the tough questions. If you did not I would have little respect for you. Someone just asked me earlier on the BB what I was doing. I have gotten several emails from people on the BB asking me about discipleship and what I do. Why should we shrink from openly asking leaders about what they are doing? They are in the public eye. They must be above reproach and mature enough to handle the job. I have never forgotten the time a person in town asked me why the church I was pastoring could not keep a pastor. I asked him why he asked. What he told me was not something any pastor should hear about a church. I have friends who will not let me escape the hard questions. Since I first became a Christian I have always been acountable to someone. It keeps me doing what I should be doing and they are the people who love me most. When I was a young Christian I asked many people what they did for their devotional life because I wanted to know what I should be doing. I could tell that the majority did not like me asking them and I wondered why at first. I noticed that they were uncomfortable and walked away. That was until I talked with the president of a mission organization. It was a pleasure talking to him because he told me what he did and the importance of making disciples. He also educated me about the importance of prayer. That two hour conversation changed my life. If a Christian man is offended by someone asking him about his life then he has something to hide. Last year I met a pastor who asked me about my devotional life. A friend of mine met him and said to me that if that pastor had been his pastor when he and his wife were married he believes that he would not be divorced today.
I can assure you that when I heard him speak while I was a student at SWBTS some of the professors expressed their disagreement opently. He was the person who helped me to do discipleship within a church context. While I was a student at SWBTS I asked some professors about discipleship and their approach and everyone of them would comment aboiut how few professors were making disciples. I asked one of them how he got started making disciples. He told me it was because of some parachruch organization materials he read. The man who taught me construction and got me staretd in business also told me that he had never made any disciples until he was 55. I asked him how he got started. He told me it was when he read some materials from another parachurch organization and met with one of the leaders. He was also a graduate of a BIOLA and had pastored for a few years. I was married at a church where the pastor met with some of the parachurch organization leaders and that is where he learned to make disciples. I pastored some churches and met only one couple who knew how to make disciples. It was because they were involved in a parachurch organization in college. For several years I have met with pastors to teach them how to make disciples. I have started discipleship groups in churches and in communities. I started discipleship groups in the chruches I pastored. So I know from experience that so many are doing little or nothing to intentionally make disciples. So much is left to chance and I believe they do not even know it. If we do not make change then pastors wil keep doing as they have always done. A former roommate of mine became a missionary in a communist country under persecution and made disciples for about 25 years there while churches were shutting down.
Too often discussing discipleship is much like a diamond expert discussing diamonds with someone who knows little or nothing about them. The diamond expert quickly knows when someone else does not know something. To tell someone about making disciples who has never made disciples is much like telling a blind person about sight. If a person has not personally made disciples they do not know what it takes and they do not experience the joy it brings. It is much like a non-Christian telling you they were offended and that Jesus is a joke. Would you agree?
I do not always know much, but I do believe God's word when John said, "I have no greater joy than this, to hear of my children walking in the truth."
I do know of a few seminaries and Bible schools tha teach personal discipleship by doing it. Do you know of any SBC seminaries that teach discipleship by practicing it and is more than just talking about it? When I graduarted from SWBTS evangelism was talked about and we were to make two reports aboiut sharing our faith. I cannot think of anytime that same thing was done teaching the students how to make disciples. Discipleship was typically taught as being mentioned as nothing more than just a Bible study. When Jesus trained His discipoles he did much more than give them a Bible study to lead of work through. -
I cannot imagine any threat that Holloway would pose to anyone who knows their Bible. I would be more concerned about making disciples and teaching people the Bible. The SBC has had some very good courses that people in churches can take to help them know their Bible better. When was the last time you have seen them used in a church? -
gb93433
gb93433
This includes you pointing out to everyone on this board what you think is wrong with what they say they beleive,, according to you,, you also have no business doing this. Glad you have come to this conclusion, and we will no longer see you violate your own convictions on this. I hope others will remember you said this. -
Then see if you can say the same thing.
Just because we are at different levels gives no excuse for not doing as Jesus commanded and leading others to do the same thing. That is the responsibility and blessings of leading others. -
Having a right to interpret the way you want (soul liberty) is one thing, and "private interpretation" is another. Private interpretation is that the Bible has a special meaning just for you and that the meaning might differ for others.
The meaning of God's word is the same for everyone but can be applied differently (I am not saying that a passage cannot have more than one meaning - but those meanings would be the same for everyone today). There is no private, esoteric meaning hidden away in scripture that varies from person to person, and God's word is not meant as a private book that people can read any way they desire. -
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http://www.sbts.edu/blogs/ -
The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229, about the time of the crusade against the Albigensians, set up a special ecclesiastical tribunal, or court, known as the Inquisition (Lat. inquisitio, an inquiry), to search out and try heretics. Twenty of the forty-five articles decreed by the Council dealt with heretics and heresy. It ruled in part:
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.
Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194. -
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Second back that statement up with facts?
Why would you assume that the masses of people (of whatever nation you are speaking of) cannot read. This is a perpetuated lie that is unsubstantiated. -
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In the NT, when Alexander the Greek conquered the known world of his time, the mark that he left on the world was literacy. Even the slaves could read. Onesimus was a runaway slave who was able to read, whom Paul leads to the Lord, and sends back to his friend, Philemon. When Christ was born, he was born into a very educated world. Peter, John, and James were all fisherman. Look at the books that they wrote. They were called ignorant and unlearned, and yet their books were very profound. They were simple fishermen. And Levi was simply a tax collector, a hated publicman. He was also very educated. These men knew Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and probably Chaldee. They were very literate. Most of the society knew most of these languages. The Greeks at least knew their own language and Latin.
Alexander gave the people literacy--Greek.
The Romans gave the people transportation--they built roads.
The Jews gave the people the Scriptures--the OT in both Hebrew and Greek.
Surely the "fulness of time had come" when Christ was born.
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