James and Paul are not dealing with justification from the same perspective. Paul is dealing with justification from a theological perspective expressly "before God." James is dealing with justification from a practical DEMONSTRATIVE perspective before men ("shew me....I will shew you....see..).
Nowhere in Romans 3-4 does Paul claim that he is calling on demonstrative evidence "shew me.....I will shew you....see.
However, in Romans 6 Paul demands that the one who has been justified has also been regenerated and that baptism declares the LEGAL consequences of justification by faith - dead to sin - and the PRACTICAL consequences of resurrective regenerative life - righteous service to God.
Although justification by faith is "without works" it is not without regeneration which produces good works (Eph. 2:10). Hence where there is no regenerative fruits there is no justification by faith. This is James point! If you profess to be justified by faith then it will be inseparable from regenerative (living) fruits because there is no such thing as a justified person who is spiritually dead. Where there is justification there is regenerative fruits. Dead faith belongs to the spiritually dead - demons!
From a practical observational perspective justification is not by mere profession of faith but by profession of faith that is accompanied by good works.
James 2:24
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Mar 22, 2012.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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What do you think would have happened to Cane if when God did not like his offering Cane would of said, “Help me to know how to give better offerings,” or, “Forgive me Father, I want to do better”?
What do you think was the reason God told Abraham to kill his son? Do you not think that God knew Abraham would? Of course, God knew Abraham would, the point of the matter is that Abraham could know that he would obey God in everything, and this is for us to know and understand for ourselves too.
Why do you think David is a man after God’s own heart? God says David was a man after His heart because David would do whatever God told him to do.
Why do you think that Moses did not get to see the Promised Land? It was because Moses did not do exactly what God said to do.
Why do you think Saul had the Holy Spirit taken from him? It was because Saul did not do what God said to do. -
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Scarlett O. ModeratorModerator
Apparently I'm not the only one who misunderstood your OP. -
Acts 5:32
We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 2:13
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. -
18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
I see repentance as necessary for salvation – but not that repentance saves, only that it is part of saving faith. Faith produces works and works are actually a necessary part of true faith. I can say that I believe as much as I want, but if my life proves otherwise then my faith is dead and useless.
I will also say that many Protestants seem to ignore works, even repentance, and actually teach a “dead faith.” I think that much of Luther’s problem was in that his position was reactionary to Catholic doctrine.
What is your position on the passage? -
It must be recognized that their are different viewpoints even within scripture -- as the perspective of James shows. Just as in the OT there was tension and difference between the priestly tradition and the prophetic tradition.
Some feel threatened by this, but there is no need to feel this way. -
Did you not see this from my post #6: "Now before I get jumped on, I am not stating what I believe, yet; I am stating what the passage says."
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I actually agree to a great extent with what you have said, and also with what The Biblicist said, which I thought was pretty good. But I also believe the passage and the import of the chapter and book are in harmony with Romans Chapter 2.
See, I just don't believe everything in scripture is as clear-cut as some would like to make it; if it were, there would be only one denomination. But that doesn't bother me because I can live with a certain amount of ambiguity and mystery. Why? Because there is a lot more to God and His ways that I can ever know, and I am content to let Him be God. I don't have to be able to make infallible pronouncements in His name or act like I know what is the exact and only meaning that a certain scripture can have. -
I'm saying that we all see through a glass, darkly, as Paul asserted.
If there is not more than one way of seeing something in a particular scripture, why do you think there are so many denominations? Are you 100% certain that you are 100% correct and everyone else is 100% wrong? -
Scarlett O. ModeratorModerator
Peter and Paul couldn't agree on all the ins and outs of salvation and they had heard from Jesus Christ personally!
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