"Benjamin,
I would never lie to my children and make up stories as you would resort to.
I would never speak such speculation to anyone.
My children were told that Jesus saves sinners and that they cannot do anything to save themselves....Jesus came into the world to save sinners...that is what we can faithfully proclaim...
I could just see it now....if you were the father of DEMAS....you would be saying...Demas, God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life...or better still Judas....you would sing tobaby Judas ...jesus loves me yes I know, cause the bible tells me see....little ones to Him belong, they are weak but He is strong....yes jesus loves me....sing it judas...yes jesus loves me...
Jerry Walls wicked and profane question about God..part2
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, May 22, 2018.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"Benjamin,
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Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
The "Calvinistic" teaching of Pre-destination/Election, is NOT based on the Word of God, the Holy Bible, but the theology of some deluded individuals.
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSovereignGrace said: ↑Oooooh.....ooooooh.....ooooh! Nachos?
Seriously, they go to hell because they’re unregenerate sinners.Click to expand... -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSaved-By-Grace said: ↑The "Calvinistic" teaching of Pre-destination/Election, is NOT based on the Word of God, the Holy Bible, but the theology of some deluded individuals.Click to expand...
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Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberEarth Wind and Fire said: ↑Name themClick to expand...
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSaved-By-Grace said: ↑those responsible for formulating "The Five Points of Calvinism".Click to expand...
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Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberEarth Wind and Fire said: ↑And who are they exactly?Click to expand...
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSaved-By-Grace said: ↑Click to expand...
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Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberEarth Wind and Fire said: ↑What I was looking for an answer actually that is the teaching of Jesus as recorded in John 6 & 10 and elsewhere. The apostle Paul confirmed The Doctrines in his letters to the Romans, the Ephesians and others. Augustine argued for the same truths over against the denials of Pelagius. I can go on and on but why... you won’t listen.Click to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSaved-By-Grace said: ↑The "Calvinistic" teaching of Pre-destination/Election, is NOT based on the Word of God, the Holy Bible, but the theology of some deluded individuals.Click to expand...
Explain what Jesus was speaking of in Jn6:37_44..then try jn10:26_30...
Show why you hate these truths so much. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSaved-By-Grace said: ↑those responsible for formulating "The Five Points of Calvinism".Click to expand...
Then 2tim1:9
Do you have something to offer or like those in In 6.....will you too go away? -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSaved-By-Grace said: ↑Notice how you rightly say Augustine, because before him the Church rightly did NOT teach this. Based on Augustine's heretical teaching on the Ransom Theory of the Atonement, what he says on serious teachings are not worth listening to, like "double predestination", which is another heresy. Neither John, Romans or Ephesians, of elsewhere teach the Reformed position of this or Election, which has been twisted for theological purposes.Click to expand...Iconoclast said: ↑The only thing a post like this demonstrates is you have no understanding of the topic or you would address it biblically.
Explain what Jesus was speaking of in Jn6:37_44..then try jn10:26_30...
Show why you hate these truths so much.Click to expand... -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite SupporterEarth Wind and Fire said: ↑And who regenerates them?Click to expand...
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterSovereignGrace said: ↑If they died unregenerate, no one. They can’t regenerate themselves. This only occurs via the gospel.Click to expand...
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Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberIconoclast said: ↑The only thing a post like this demonstrates is you have no understanding of the topic or you would address it biblically.
Explain what Jesus was speaking of in Jn6:37_44..then try jn10:26_30...
Show why you hate these truths so much.Click to expand...
"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one" (Mark 14:24)
Note the language of John Calvin. The reference is to the Lord's Supper in Mark's Gospel, where Jesus says, "And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many", speaking of the shedding of His blood on the cross for the sins of "the many". On the use of "many", Calvin says, that Jesus does not include "only part of the world", which is exactly what we would not expect, if Jesus died ONLY for the elect. Calvin then goes on to use more un-Calvinistic language, by saying exactly who is included in this "many", for whom Jesus was to shed His blood, "THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE". The context is very clear, Jesus is here speaking of His forthcoming Death for the sins of the WHOLE human race. The same account in Luke's Gospel agrees with what Calvin says, because there Judas is included in, when Jesus speaks to him, as He does right here in Mark.
"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life. (John 3:16)
Again, here we read of language that we would not expect any "Calvinist" use for this passage in John 3. "universal term whosoever". Jesus "invites all indiscriminately to partake of life...entrance into eternal life". Jesus, says Calvin, by His death, was to "reconcile the WHOLE WORLD", which we see from Mark 14:24, means "THE HUMAN RACE", which CANNOT refer only to the "elect", as some suppose the Bible teaches! Then Calvin goes on to say, not using "Calvinistic" language, "all without distinction", but, "ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION", which means that Jesus, by His Death, has opened up the Way for EVERY HUMAN BEING, from Adam till the last person, to have ETERNAL LIFE. It is very clear from John Calvin's own language here, that he is NOT a "Calvinist"!
"He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated" (Colossians 1:14)
Calvin's words here, are also very clear as to the scope of the Death of Jesus Christ. While some have convinced themselves, against the Teachings of the Holy Bible, that Jesus' Death does benefit the human race, as they all benefit from the rain, sunshine and food, which the Lord blesses all with (as if this were not the case before Jesus died!), Calvin here is clear, that Jesus actually died for the SINS of "the world", that is, "THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE".
Yet "Calvinists" will refuse to accept what John Calvin says here, and still blindly argue that they have a case from the Holy Bible for their nonsense! -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberEarth Wind and Fire said: ↑Like I said, he won’t listen so why make the effort.Click to expand...
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Saved-By-Grace Well-Known MemberIconoclast said: ↑What about the millions who never heard the gospel why do they go to hellClick to expand...
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SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite SupporterEarth Wind and Fire said: ↑I’m not buying it.Click to expand...
No gospel, no salvation. -
Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member
It is obvious that this person who calls themselves, "sovereign grace", cannot respond from the Holy Bible, to what I write, but supposes that I am in need of their "prayers", as if what I am saying is not taught in the Bible! If it is not, then prove it wrong!
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