Utter nonsense. PST is a tram line in Poland.
Just how does the wrath of god be appeased if no penal Substitution?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Jan 29, 2020.
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1) That Jesus' death on the cross is just/deserved. I believe it is explicitly stated in the Word that Jesus' death is unjust.
2) Jesus dies as a substitute. That is, the punishment due to humanity falls on Jesus instead of humanity, so that humanity does not suffer it. I believe the Bible is explicit that Jesus suffers along with us, not instead of us. What is unique about Jesus' crucifixion is not that he alone suffers, but that he alone suffers unjustly as an innocent party.
If you cannot prove these two things, then you need to give up penal substitution. -
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I could present more material defending my position, from the Old Testament sacrificial system etc, but I am hesitant to do so since it seems like you are not really reading and thinking about what I write. -
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they need someone to take that which is due to them and provide an atonement for them? -
What we need is for someone innocent to die on our behalf (not in our place, for we still need to die) so that justice would demand the reversal of death via resurrection. This is what Jesus does for us, so that if we die with him we can also rise with him. Our sin is done away with when we are crucified with him (Romans 6:6).
"And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead [f]in our transgressions, made us alive together [g]with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." -
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And you still don't seem to understand that prior to being saved, humanity is already under the wrath of God. The wrath of God is not primarily some future, impending judgment to be avoided. It is the current state of those who are not yet saved. Paul says they are children of wrath. Genesis 3 makes it clear that since the fall, humanity is exiled from Paradise and the presence of God as a judgment for sin. You belittle the wrath of God when you relegate it to only some future, impending judgment at the end of time.
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