Let's discuss purgatory

Er...no it isn't - and I'd appreciate you laying off the personal slurs and slanders; there's been quite enough of that from you.

Because it's classic pre-millenial dispensationalism read into rather ambiguous passages of Scripture. I'd like to know where else he gets this view (three(!) judgements, 'Bema' judgment etc) from, because it certainly isn't held by any Bible-believing Christians I know...

 

I said it's part of salvation, not justification.

Yes. Also, both justification and sanctifaction are part of salvation.

I never said it was a part of justification. :BangHead:

By God's grace alone through faith alone.

JohnDeereFan, are you a Christian? Also, much less importantly, are you SBC?

 

Really? Would you care to back that up? (No, I'm just kidding. Of course you won't back it up.)

First of all, that doesn't explain why he's wrong. That just explains why you don't like what he said. There's a big difference.

Second, I've never met a Bible believing Christian who didn't believe this Biblical teaching.

Third, if you had bothered to read my statements about these three judgements, you would have seen that I did offer scripture to show where they're found in the Bible.

 

They're the same thing.

No, sanctification is not a part of salvation. It is a result of salvation, not a cause of salvation.

Yes, actually, you did and I already showed from your own post that you did.

What does that mean? You were just walking along, minding your own business and crash, bam, alakazam, out of an orange colored sky, God just dropped salvation on you?

Yes.

 

:BangHead: Try re-reading my other posts. I've already explained it.

Well, I sure don't deserve it. I came to Christ in faith and repentance. What point are you trying to make?

 

Ditto................

 

JohnDeereFan, maybe Article IV of the Baptist Faith and Message will help you understand salvation better.

 

Actually, I understand the doctrine of justification just fine, thank you.

But your childish insult is duly noted.

((By the way, you obviously didn't read what you posted from the BF&M because it states that justification and sanctification are two different things, just as I said.))

 

:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:

I know justification and sanctification are different things, I never said anything else. What I said is that justification is not the totality of salvation.

 

Yes, I will: on another thread, you called me a troll*, and on this page you likened my behaviour to posting dog logs through someone's mailbox. I've about had enough of this.

*If I'm a troll, how come I've managed to rack up >7000 posts? I can tell you the Mods are pretty hot on trolling here, so it's not as if I've slipped under their radar.

OK, then: the three judgements are mutually contradictory, particularly the last two - you've got the immediate problem of unbelievers being in the 'righteous' 'nations' and believers being in the 'goat' 'nations'.

Like I said, news to me: all the Bible-believing Christians I know believe, like me, in a final judgement, but are largely agnostic (as they tend to be re eschatology generally) on the details and 'how' of that judgement. Must be a Pond difference, but I can tell you that the idea of there being three judgements (including a 'Bema' judgement) came out at me from leftfield - hence my (perhaps over-, sorry!) reaction to DHK's quote.

Yes, I accept that, but it still leaves the contradiction problem I referenced above, which would suggest that the Scriptures are indeed ambiguous on this issue.

 

You're right, I did.

And that's not a personal attack because under the common definition of a troll, a troll is someone who's only intent is to disrupt, attack and harrass. You meet that definition.

Again, that's not a personal attack. That's comparing your behavior to something else.

Oh, so then you believe that Jesus is incompetent to seperate the sheep from the goats? Jesus really doesn't know who belongs to Him and who doesn't?

That's because you don't know or believe the word of God.

And you still have not shown that there is any contradiction or that Jesus Christ is not able to accurately determine who is saved and who is unsaved.

 

Yeah, that's pretty disturbing.

 

No kidding eh? But hey, at least they are up front about it!

 

I'm not sure which is worse: the fact that his church has this attitude or the fact that he's bragging about it.

 

Calling someone a troll is a personal attack. Deal with it.

Ok, whatever; it's sad to see someone who professes to be a Christian taking that attitude.

No, I'm saying there's something seriously amiss with this particular interpretation of the Word of God.

Don't presume to tell me what I do or do not believe. I read the Bible daily and believe it is God's Word. I just differ from you in the interpretation of some of it. Please don't make the mistake of conflating these two concepts again.

Oh I'm sure Jesus can determine who is saved and who isn't. But your interpretation and conclusion just don't hold water, because of the contradiction in your conclusion, which is (if I need to spell it out again): Judgement #2 and Judgement #3 (in yours and DHK's scheme of things) contradict each other. Judgements #1 and #2 do not, but it's your interpretation and conclusion re Judgement #3 that's the problem. In #3, you have - according to you - the nations of the world judged according to whether they've been nice to the Jews or not (the passage from Matthew's gospel doesn't actually mention the Jews but never mind) and if they have, off they go to heaven and if they haven't, down to hell they go. Only one problem: if the 'nice nations' contain unbelievers, then those unbelievers need to go to hell under Judgement #2 - but they can't because under Judgement #3 they have to go to heaven. Conversely, if there are believers in the 'nasty nations', then that's their bad luck - they have to go to hell under Judgement #3. So your (not Jesus' but how you would have Him act according to your interpretation of these Scriptures) whole eschatological soteriology is up the spout.

 

Why? Jesus did this quite often in the Gospels.

And yet, you fail to show what is amiss or what the correct interpretation is.

I stand by what I said. Your posts here are solid evidence that you neither know nor believe the word of God.

Actually, I never said anything at all like that. Neither did DHK. Please don't say "according to you", when you know very well that I've said nothing of the kind.

You're rambling. You're also lying. I never said anything even remotely like this. Neither did DHK.

 

That's because they only know what to think, and not how to think...If they knew how to think, they would see the folly in their supposed thinking...

in XC
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Could you please show us how the verses I provided are "folly"?

 

ummmm, do I really have to repeat Matt Black's rebuttal...again?

In XC
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