The Calvinist view of Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all is obviously false doctrine. Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2. He bought those heading for swift destruction, as well as those to be saved, 1 Peter 2:1. Since God desires all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4. His plan provided the opportunity to be saved according to His plan to everyone exposed to the gospel of Christ. John 3:16
Limited Atonement: God's Power to Save
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 15, 2021.
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Any attempt to claim that you chose to "accept" God's gift as a means of free will is a claim of trying to get to God on your own terms. -
Note that Van's claim of "Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity" is plucked from a couple verses out of context. Secondly, Van's claim is man centered as it makes man the focal point in whether a person is saved or not saved.
Anyone reading what Van has stated can see the error. -
Calvinism is completely based on out of context disinformation.
Calvinism is man-centered, shifting responsibility for effective evangelism from those born anew to God.
If God does it all, why is it hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom? Folks, if you study scripture, you will find Calvinism is false doctrine.
The Calvinist view of Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all is obviously false doctrine. Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2. He bought those heading for swift destruction, as well as those to be saved, 1 Peter 2:1. Since God desires all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4. His plan provided the opportunity to be saved according to His plan to everyone exposed to the gospel of Christ. John 3:16 -
Van, if Christ paid the ransom for all, then Christ also paid for all sins. That is what the ransom paid for. You are trying to split hairs in order to somehow extricate yourself from the theological conundrum you are in. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I hope the Lord convicts you of your refusal to admit the truth instead of making it up.
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They cannot defend their false doctrine so they waste time spewing nonsense.
Next they say Christ could not provide the means of salvation, the ransom payment, without paying for the individual sins. This absurdity is straight from the horses mouth.
Folks, ask yourselves, where is the individual located when Christ performs the circumcision done without hands?
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; (Colossians 2:9-11)
Thus only after God places a person into Christ (positional sanctification) is their sin burden removed and their sins forgiven forever. -
You were, however, informed about the gospel and like all person's not drawn you found the gospel foolish. God abandoned you to your own lusts (see Romans 1) until the time he chose to draw you.
Second, in Romans 2 and in Romans 9 Paul tells us that one is not a Jew outwardly, but all who are chosen are Jews (Israel), children of the Promise, inwardly. Thus, election is for the Israel of God, which comes from every nation, tribe and tongue.
Third, we are justified by faith, but we are saved by grace. This is clear in all of the epistles, just read Romans and Ephesians to get this straight.
Fourth, you show your ignorance and act as though being elect is merit based when you sarcastically say "God preferred" you. The election of the saints is known only to God and was set before the foundation of the world, before I ever became human. This mystery is for God alone and there is nothing in that mystery by which any human could boast. What your response reveals is how very much you resent God's ultimate authority over humanity. You hate the thought that God saved you by His will not by your own will. You have no place for boasting.
The conviction is for you. You have painted God with an accusation. For this you should seek repentance. -
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They cannot defend their false doctrine so they waste time spewing nonsense.
Next they say Christ could not provide the means of salvation, the ransom payment, without paying for the individual sins. This absurdity is straight from the horse's mouth.
Folks, ask yourselves, where is the individual located when Christ performs the circumcision done without hands?
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; (Colossians 2:9-11)
Thus only after God places a person into Christ (positional sanctification) is their sin burden removed and their sins forgiven forever.
Limited Atonement as wrongly understood by Calvinism is obviously false doctrine. -
You need to stop thinking economically and understand that Jesus is talking about those who see themselves as greater than they ought. The rich young ruler wanted control and could not give it up, thus he walked away in sorrow. Perhaps there came a day when he was emptied and God redeemed him, but the Bible gives us no record of redemption.
I, myself, am prideful like all humanity, but my Redeemer has caused me to repent and to realize that apart from being found, immersed, in Christ I would be sentenced to hell.
MB, do you know the amazing grace of Jesus that comes without any efforts from you? -
MBwhich concerns believing.
How about you? do you have any faith that God will save you from hell with out conviction faith or repentance? -
According to Arminian theologian Kenneth Grider, the Arminian rejection of limited atonement ultimately leads to rejecting penal substitution altogether:
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I did not ask for you to give your thoughts on the identity of the sheep.
Jesus says He lays down His life for HIS SHEEP.
HERE IS THE QUESTION.
WHY DOES HE EXPLAIN HE DIED FOR HIS SHEEP, IF HE DIED FOR GOATS ALSO.?
HE DOES NOT SAY...I DIED FOR EVERYONE.
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