manifestation vs gift

The Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost! He is here and nothing you have posted have proven otherwise!

My doctrine is sound in the word..you are the one that has trouble with 1 Cor. 12:7!

We are in the last days! THe HS was poured out in the Last days...nothing has changed since his resurrection and the pouring out of the promise of the Father. THe HS still works the same and will complete his work til Jesus comes back!

I have proven my faith in scriptures...I acted on my faith...I am living what he said I could..overcoming what he said I could!

Please tell me that you really do know the difference...this is getting sad! His God can not supply! My God is trustworthy!

Jesus could do not miracles in his hometown because of unbelief! ...and you wonder why we do not see them more today! Because preacher/teachers are blind leading the blind! They can not see and they do not want others to see!

I have heard many testimonies! I have friends that their children were healed of a disease of the eyes that caused them to go blind. I believe that we will be hearing more and more because people just like me have searched the scriptures themselves! God help our unbelief!!!!!

You still can answer the questions where your interpretaion contradicts scripture! I am living what the Bible says I can!

Getting a little silly again! Stick to the scriptures...get off me personally!

My interpretation does not come up with that nonsense!

I am not responding to this nonsense! Now your giving the devil credit for my faith in a God that nothing is impossible!

Who said he will?..you are getting desperate in the debate of the Holy Spirit manifesting himself!

No, your interpretation is outside the Bible! God's will was for us to have the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome satan here and the HS will not leave us or forsake us! Because without Him we are nothing! It is only through the HS that we can do anything on a spiritual level!

I know that I do not limit my God!

Can't get any plainer!

If you say so??? But I don't see it!

Proof that you know nothing about tongues!

Well, I do not believe this way! Corinthians proves that maturity has nothing to do with the HS manifesting himself.

Really??? So all those that do not suffer are not godly?? Believers and unbelievers suffer...explain that one!

You can post all day long about the false out there! But it will not take away the truth! Satan wants you to buy into that so you will miss out on what God is doing for real!!

 

You didn't read that link did you? Or, you didn't read carefully or the whole thing?
Something is wrong with you! Honestly!
Here is a Christian suffering for his faith. His house has been burned down; his family threatened with death, as he has been also. He can't go to school any more. Why? He is a Christian being blamed for something he didn't do.

What is his response:

And your only comment to his testimony is "You can post all the day long about the FALSE out there."

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Get out of your armchair and go and see what the real world is like.

 

Your right...I did not look at the link! Because after debating with you..I really do not care to read your links. I have never said that people are not mistreated...so what is your point?

 

Then why respond at all.

 

To the links? To confirm to him that I did not look at them.

 

If you do not want to read his links in response to his posts why respond to any posts ever by him? Makes no sense.

 

The point is the same as I previously said:
The Bible never says that the Godly or spiritual will speak in tongues, as the Charismatics claim.

But it does say: "All who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Therefore, what should be our measuring stick in godliness?

Mark this, and mark it well: No matter where you live, a Godly Christian will suffer persecution.

 

But that does not prove they are Godly! Unbelievers also suffer! It rains on the just and the unjust!

 

This has nothing to do with rain and sun.
What would you do if a gun is held to your head and you were told to recant Christ or perish?
What Muslims are threatened by Christians (born again) to recant or be shot? None. In fact we give them freedom of religion. But when we go to their nations, that very freedom is not only taken away from us, it is taken away from their own people. They suffer persecution not the weather. Don't be foolish and understand what the Scriptures say when it makes the statement:

All who live Godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

A Muslim will not suffer persecution at the hands of another Muslim. Just what are you thinking? That is why I gave you that link to read. Don't you understand what goes on in this world?

Now look at the Scripture and see how close suffering is linked to salvation.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
--God's will is not simply to believe, but also to suffer.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
--There is a connection between being a joint heir with Christ and suffering.

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
--This is part of the Beatitudes. You are blessed of God if persecuted by others for righteousness sake.

Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
--How to know Christ--be a partaker in his suffering.

Paul said "I die daily."

He also said:
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
--A cross in the day of Paul, was an instrument of execution. That is what Christ died on. Paul says that every day he is put to death.

Christ taught the same thing:
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
--Take up your cross--put yourself to death every day. Put the flesh to death. Say no. And yield yourself completely to Christ.

If you do, you will suffer. Suffering is part of the Christian life. Is it God's will for you to suffer? Most definitely it is. It is how he conforms us to the image of Christ.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
--We glory in tribulations, because tribulation works patience.

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
--Same truth is taught by James. The trying (trials or suffering) of your faith works patience.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
--Your faith may be tried as fire. Even so rejoice. It will only be for a season (a short time).

It is the will of God that you suffer. Suffering is so much the will of God that is closely related to one's salvation.
"Heir of God IF we suffer with him." That is a strong statement.

 

Excellent post, DHK.

 

Healing is so close to salvation it is mentioned in the same scripture! THe same word is used to describe them both "sozo"...a word study will be very benificial to anyone that really wants to know the truth about healing and God's will!

 

Very poor exegesis. Simply because one word is used to describe both means nothing without context. The word Greek word sozo is polysemous, meaning it has more than one meaning. Depending on the context, it may mean to save or it may mean to heal. It does not mean both in any one context. It means one or the other.

Here's another polysemous word: apoluo. The core meaning is to release. It can mean to divorce (Matt. 19:9), or to send someone on a mission, in this case missionaries (Acts 13:3). Were the missionaries then abandoned by the church? That would be true according to your method of interpretation. But of course that would be a ridiculous interpretation. Context must determine meaning.

You really need to stay away from the Greek NT. You mess up your interpretation every time you try, because you don't know the Greek and you don't know linguistics.

 

That is only an opinion and wishful thinking. I have given you Scripture: true and irrefutable. You have given me nothing in return.

There are some Scriptures that speak of spiritual healing totally apart from physical healing. It is unrelated.
Again I present you with the story of the Ten Lepers.
All ten were healed, but as the story goes only one was "healed" spiritually. That has nothing to do with physical healing. One out of the ten got saved. And he was a Samaritan.
There is the healing of the soul and the healing of the body. The two are not related.

But suffering is related to salvation.
"heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ IF so be that you suffer with him."
You can't have a much closer relationship than that.

 

Where have I said take it out of context? I believe in context!

 

"Jairus besought Jesus greatly, saying, My little daughter lieth at the point of death: I pray thee, come lay thy hands on her, she may be healed (sozo); and she shall live." Mark 5:23

"THey also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed (sozo). Luke 8:36

The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed (sozo). Acts 14:9

A word study on sozo would be very beneficial!

 

Many of them came to Jesus with "faith" to be healed. That is why they came to Jesus in the first place. That is why people in our day go to doctors. They have "faith" in the doctors to heal them. The faith to heal, is not saving faith. They went away healed but not necessarily saved. Unless there is evidence that Christ said they were saved, one cannot assume that they were saved. Physical healing and spiritual healing are two different things.
Ten lepers were healed; only one was saved.

 

More faith in doctors than God! Don't go crazy like before..it is just an observation!

Not sure I buy the only one saved in the lepers..but I will leave it at that for now!

There are many different areas that we need healing...this I will agree! But Jesus is the healer of them all..including physical!

 

Turns out that we find the word manifest in many scriptures other than 1 Cor. 12...here are a few!

MR 4:22 For there is nothing hid *, which shall not be MANIFESTed; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad *.

JOH 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made MANIFEST to Israel, therefore * * am I come baptizing with water.

JOH 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made MANIFEST, that they are wrought in God.

JOH 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made MANIFEST in him.

I have given the meaning as of the Greek word phanerosis, which means " a manifestation, a making visible or observable." Seems like every where MANIFEST is used ..this definition rings true!

 

Why do you do this? I notice you do it with John's post as well. You misquote us; put words in our mouths that we did not say.
I never said that people put more faith in doctors than in God. Where did I say that?
I said, that in order to be healed a person will go to a doctor, and put their faith in a doctor to be healed. They will take his advice, take the medicine he dispenses, and his recommendations even if it means heart surgery. They put their faith in his hands. However I did not say "more than God."

Study the story. One leper returned. One leper gave thanks. To one leper Jesus said: "Thy faith has made thee whole." One leper was saved.

Four men parted a roof and let a paralyzed man down in front of where Jesus was preaching. Jesus was astonished at their faith. Whose faith? Not the faith of the sick person. It doesn't say that he had any faith at all. He is irrelevant in this entire story. It was the faith of his friends that brought him to be healed, the faith that they had in the power of Jesus to heal. The one that was healed we don't even know if he got saved.

 

I told you not to go crazy on me! It was an observation on my part..I did not say you said it!

AGAIN...I said it was MY observation! I NEVER said you said it!

But does it say the rest were not? ...or...just not thankful!

So when Jesus said to get up and the man did not obey him...would he have faith! So I will disagree with you on the part that the sick person did not have faith! If he did not have faith he would have stayed on the mat!