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Masks: Do they work? CDC Says No

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Reformed1689, May 20, 2021.

  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I had posted this in another thread but the mask supporters never answered:

    Sure Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures

    This study is about influenza but the way the two are spread are almost identical.

    But here is a quote of note from the article:

    Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Don’t worry Ann will be along shortly to get you right.
     
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  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Been my opinion from the start that non n-95 or above is 99.5% worthless.
     
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  5. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I've read articles by surgeons who confirm that surgical masks do not stop viruses.
    All they can manage to do is to contain the moisture droplets being exhaled from the mouth and nose.

    One surgeon even said that if he is sick,
    he stays home because he knows that such devices will not stop infectious diseases.

    Surgeons rely on the equipment in the operating rooms, such as the ventilation system and the sterile procedures, to help with that.

    But I don't think that that is really the point, Dave...
    If you were the C.D.C or W.H.O. and wanted to avoid mass hysteria in a world that largely does not trust God for their health and welfare,
    what would you tell people?

    To add an extra layer of "distance" and hygiene measures until vaccines are developed?
     
    #5 Dave G, May 20, 2021
    Last edited: May 20, 2021
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So get your flu shot or wear N95 type masks (those seem to work, per the article).

    I'd rather risk the flu, to tell you the truth.

    And....you know something else that may work (of the homemade sort)? Duct tape. :Biggrin
     
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  7. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Properly applied :Thumbsup, this would solve a multitude of problems!!:Laugh:Whistling
     
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  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Still nothing from the mask supporters. You know it's interesting when confronted with the ACTUAL science we get nothing but silence.
     
  9. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Don't be too hard on them; they haven't got their talking points from the DNC yet!!:Rolleyes:Rolleyes:Rolleyes:Rolleyes:Rolleyes:Rolleyes:Rolleyes
     
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Maybe because the flu season was so light thus year?

    Many attribute this time mask wearing which seems contrary to the article (I doubt most people wore N95 masks).
     
  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Maybe they got tired of saying the same thing over and over - you know - just like the non- KJO crowed
     
  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Bueller? Bueller?
     
  13. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    This report is consistent with what medical people and the CDC have been saying from the beginning.

    Surgical and cloth masks are not designed to protect the wearer. They are designed to protect everyone else from the wearer.

    These studies were studying transmission from the point of view of the wearer catching influenza from others which as we have been saying from the beginning, surgical masks and cloth masks are not very effective at doing because they are not designed for that purpose. N95 masks and similar respirators that are fitted properly are effective at this.

    From the article:


    If you want to study how effective surgical masks and cloth masks are at preventing transmission from the wearer to everyone else:

    CDC: Maximizing Fit for Cloth and Medical Procedure Masks ...

    The reason surgical/cloth mask recommendations make sense is because covid19 can be transmitted asymptomatically or very mildly symptomatically. So it makes sense to mask everyone to prevent all the transmission from folks who don't realize they are infected.


    I said the same thing back in March 2020 before the mask recommendation was in place because of shortages.

    CA Governor Predicts 50% Infection (20m) Yet China Holding at 80k???

    And April 2020 after the change in recommendation occrurred because the shortages were no longer the case.

    Lockdown is Nonsense at this point
     
    #13 Gold Dragon, May 23, 2021
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
  14. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    The other thing to note is the small sample sizes of the studies, particularly of the source control studies. Altogether there were only 10 studies evaluated for masks and if many of them were underpowered by small sample size. It means that more studies with larger samples need to be done.

    Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures

    In the discussion they state this.

     
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  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You even quoted the part where it says it doesn't protect the infected OR the uninfected. You should read the article again.
     
  16. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Are you really curious or do you just want to argue?

    Some of us have lives outside of this forum. I have had work deadlines, a friend whose mother was severely injured last week and needed my assistance. I also sat with him during her extensive surgery and helped out with practical needs. I also needed to help my in-laws with some things. Believe it or not, those things are more important to me than responding to your mistaken ideas.

    Yes, exactly. If I thought the anti-maskers were actually curious to know what was true, I would forsake sleep and meals to assist. When all they want to do is argue, I am not highly motivated.

    FYI, I reviewed this study back when you posted it on the other thread. The problems were so obvious, and I had so little time, I left it to others to explain.

    I’m sure you feel completely vindicated by one obscure study since you have labeled it as the conclusive statement of “SCIENCE!”

    First things first. The title of this thread is a lie. The CDC does NOT claim that masks don’t work. Even a casual review of current mask statements demonstrates the lie. As you said in the other thread, one “has to dig” to find anything that may demonstrate that masks are ineffective. What you are digging into are studies from around the world that explains observations and results, some much better than others. Cherry-picking one Chinese study that is an aberration from others and designating it as “Science” and/or the definitive CDC position is a demonstration of extreme ignorance of how science works, the function of the CDC, a lack of ability to evaluate evidence, or simple dishonesty.

    Looking at the study, we can see a number of factors that have to be considered:

    (1) It’s a Chinese study. That doesn’t matter to me, but for all of the conspiracists out there who currently claim that the virus was created by China as a bioweapon, they shouldn’t take this study at face value. To the conspiracist, the Chinese are trying to harm us with this virus, so we should do the opposite of what they say. However, I take it at face value and think it is relevant, once one understands what is being said.

    (2) We should also note that this study covers hand hygiene and masks. Their results appeared to indicate that hand washing is ineffective. Do anti maskers also refuse to wash their hands? Do they verbally assault people who wash their hands?

    (3) The study primarily involves reviews of other studies in households, residence halls, and in Hajj pilgrimages from persons from various countries. In all of these situations, there was no mention of social distancing -- which is part of the mask protocol, since masks simply deflect/divert the virus-carrying vapor plume. If one wears a mask without social distancing, the mask will be ineffective.

    (4) As you stated upfront, this is not a study of COVID-19 transmission, but of influenza transmission. Even during influenza outbreaks, I have never heard social distancing recommendations, other than persons who have flu symptoms should stay home and away from others. Often, because of the lack of social distancing in homes, whole families come down with the flu — and that’s what this study seems to corroborate.

    So in conclusion:
    • The CDC did not make the claim that masks are ineffective.
    • The study cherry-picked as an example of “science” does not support the claim that masks with required social distancing protocols are ineffective.
     
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    They thrive on mutually supported emotional pleas.
     
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  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Your point? Social distancing works equally well with or without masks.
     
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  19. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Why do you still believe in asymptomatic carriers?
     
  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Isn't that the main reason for BB????? :Cautious :eek: :D
     
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