McLaren to Celebrate Ramadan with Muslims

[matt wade]

Actually, you are possibly witnessing to them right now; as they could be reading this.

And the first thing they will see in many places is that they are worshipping Satan because of the name they use, even moreso than because of the rejection of the Son (which is of course taken as a given, while the name issue is what is emphasized over and over).

Salvation for them is not changing the language one says elohim in, it's solely in recognizing their need for a savior and accepting Jesus as that savior.

If they are reading this, then I guess they've been told they are worshippin satan. It's good for them to know that. Now they can decide to turn from that and worship the one true God.

What does the name or language have to do with anything? I don't remember commenting on that at all.

 

[Marcia]

That's not true, as Muhammad did initially start with a form of Judaism, yet moved it further away from orthodoxy as they rejected him. The Arabic "allah" is derived from the Hebrew "eloah" via the Aramaic "Elah".
If it is a false god, it is false for the same reasons Judaism would be in error. People make a big issue with Allah/Islam because (besides this Christian Zionist "Jews are on our side, Islam is the enemy of both" mindset) they are hung up in this "Allah was one of 360 gods" myth. What happened was that the Arabs (who are also from Abraham and once knew the true God) began worshipping all these other things besides God, who then became lost in a pantheon, just as kept happening in Israel.

So I wish we would quit singling Islam out in comparison to Judaism. It serves no purpose but to sidetrack the real issue. The two religions are very much similar when it comes to the question of "what will you do with this Jesus?" (Islam is a bit closer in granting Him the title "Messiah", but both reject Him as Son of God and Savior).

Islam is not a form of Judaism or remotely like it - they claim, for example, that Abraham went up to the mountain to sacrifice Ishmael and Ishmael is the one who is blessed, not Issac. the Koran is not like the OT.

Judaism was a religion established by God! It is not a false religion. It's just that those who follow it today do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah. That does not make Judaism false and it certainly does not make it like Islam.

Islam was started about 400 yrs. after Christ by a man who got the "revelation" from a demon in a cave. So I will continue to separate Judaism from Islam.

 

[Marcia]

This has caused a large debate among the largest swedish baptist denomination, Evangeliska Frikyrkan. The chairman on his blog wrote that McLaren was in error. The Dean of the ÖTH seminary thinks not. The debate has been very heated.

For those of you who might read Swedish, here is the blog that started it all http://www.stefansward.se/

Thanks for the info, Psalm 95. This is interesting to know. :wavey:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Being kind and nice and friendly with people of other religions is without a doubt a good thing.

But participating in their observances is a different story.

No way I could do what McClaren did.

Unimaginable

It reminds me of that horrible HORRIBLE joint service they had in NYC after the Trade Center bombing. I believe it was a protestant minister, a catholic priest, a muslim cleric, a jewish rabbi and a hindu cleric. (or something like that)

How a born again person could be a part of anything like that is beyond me.

 

[annsni]

Doug Wilson has a great blog entry on this:

http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=6869

 

[Eric B]

If they are reading this, then I guess they've been told they are worshippin satan. It's good for them to know that. Now they can decide to turn from that and worship the one true God.

What does the name or language have to do with anything? I don't remember commenting on that at all.

OK, you didn't; but most people who single Islam out like that make a big deal of the name used. That's the primary reason they say it's Satan.

Islam is not a form of Judaism or remotely like it - they claim, for example, that Abraham went up to the mountain to sacrifice Ishmael and Ishmael is the one who is blessed, not Issac. the Koran is not like the OT.

Judaism was a religion established by God! It is not a false religion. It's just that those who follow it today do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah. That does not make Judaism false and it certainly does not make it like Islam.

Islam was started about 400 yrs. after Christ by a man who got the "revelation" from a demon in a cave. So I will continue to separate Judaism from Islam.

So Muhammad (and the false angel he followed) twisted it into another religion by changing the events. Nobody denies that. But on the same token, nobody is saved by "religion" in the first place, so the Jews have no merit from their "religion" being [originally] established by God. (And they have added a lot of false stuff to it, including harsh condemnations of Jesus. At least Islam respects Him as a prophet and nominally as Messiah. And don't forget Kabballah! I'm not even talking about the secular pop-version publicized by Madonna and others. Even in Orthodox Judaism, they have this paganized mystical system at its core).
So this hostility towards Islam contrasted with such sympathy towards Judaism is not objective, and is sending a false message as well.

 

[Revmitchell]

Such ideas ignore the role of Israel in God's purposes throughout history

 

[Eric B]

No it doesn't.
What God did in the past, or might do in the future does not sanctify all the stuff added to the religion (in place of Christ) today.

 

[Revmitchell]

No it doesn't.
What God did in the past, or might do in the future does not sanctify all the stuff added to the religion (in place of Christ) today.

I did not find that anyone said it did. However, Israel has had and does have a special place in God's plan. No one excuses their errors but Israel is set apart and the Abrahamic covenant was solely based on God and not anything on the part of Israel.

Islam however, is pure evil founded form the pit of hell, it is violent, unforgiving and lacks any peace or grace.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Here's a couple of blog entries about the OP

http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=5139

http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=6869 deals with the issue as a means of showing the real doctrinal problems with the emergent church.

 

[annsni]

Here's a couple of blog entries about the OP

http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=6869 deals with the issue as a means of showing the real doctrinal problems with the emergent church.

Hey!! I posted this one first!!

I thought he did a really good job of it.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Sorry, that'll teach me to read all the posts. :tonofbricks:

Then let me be the first to say that you are right about it being a great blog entry. :thumbs:

 

[matt wade]

OK, you didn't; but most people who single Islam out like that make a big deal of the name used. That's the primary reason they say it's Satan.

Most people who come out, on a Christian forum like this, and defend Islam are people who believe that Muslims may somehow be saved, even though they don't accept Christ as Savior. You probably wouldn't like it if I lumped you in with those "most people", so don't lump me either.

Islam worships satan, not because of any name or language used. They worship satan because they don't worship the one true God. Worship anything but God and you are worshipping satan.

 

[annsni]

Sorry, that'll teach me to read all the posts. :tonofbricks:

Then let me be the first to say that you are right about it being a great blog entry. :thumbs:

LOL - That's OK - I'm just joshin'. :tongue3:

I'm going to send the link to my hubby too because of a discussion that's actually about something different but this blog post addresses an issue that's common to both. That makes it a REALLY good post.

 

[Marcia]

OK, you didn't; but most people who single Islam out like that make a big deal of the name used. That's the primary reason they say it's Satan.
So Muhammad (and the false angel he followed) twisted it into another religion by changing the events. Nobody denies that. But on the same token, nobody is saved by "religion" in the first place, so the Jews have no merit from their "religion" being [originally] established by God. .

They did a lot more than twist anything or change events! It's an entirely different system and different god than Judaism. Judiasm did have the right God because those who believed in God were saved (see Abraham).

At least Islam respects Him as a prophet and nominally as Messiah.

That is not saying much since they think Mohammed is greater than Jesus.

And don't forget Kabballah! I'm not even talking about the secular pop-version publicized by Madonna and others. Even in Orthodox Judaism, they have this paganized mystical system at its core).

The Kabbalah is not Judaism. It's a gnostic/mystical/occult spinoff. You can find this from every religion.

So this hostility towards Islam contrasted with such sympathy towards Judaism is not objective, and is sending a false message as well

I don't have hostility; it's an objective assessment.