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Featured Miracles

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Moriah, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    You said I was the one that said Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel, those are Jesus’ words! That is what Jesus said! Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
    Do you not grasp that?
    Are you trying to be deceitful? Ann did NOT say “was Jesus disobeying His Father?” Ann said, “Jesus disobeyed then.”
    Were you lying when you said Ann said, “was Jesus disobeying His Father?” Are you bearing false witness to go against me?
     
    #41 Moriah, Apr 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2012
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Of course. You quoted that passage, a bit out of context perhaps, in defense of your position. Perhaps you didn't know what Jesus really meant. Quoting Scripture doesn't make you right.
    "Jesus disobeyed then?????" She was questioning you. She was drawing that conclusion for you. She was saying, "So is this what you believe?" You were the one saying or claiming that Christ is sent only to the lost sheep of Israel in spite of the fact that we see Jesus going to this Canaanite woman. Now she says: Reconcile these facts! Is Christ disobeying the Father? What is going on here Moriah? Your position is inconsistent.
    That is exactly what Ann said. She said it to you. Can you answer the question in light of the evidence given.
    Jesus is supposedly only to go to Israel--according to you.
    BUT, Uh Oh, something bad happened! He went to the Canaanite woman and healed her son!!!! Now what! Jesus is in big trouble now isn't he? What is he going to say to his Father now that he has gone to a Gentile, and not just the lost sheep of Israel. I hope he is not in trouble.
    Can you defend the actions of Jesus.
     
  3. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel that is the truth no matter what context.
    The scripture says Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel. How difficult is that for you?
    Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel. Stop going against Jesus to defend falseness.
    If Ann can accuse Jesus of disobeying then, then how can she be reasoned with?
    No, according to God, Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.
    Jesus’ actions do not need defending. How can you talk in such a way is beyond me.
    Matthew 15:23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
    Matthew 15:23 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession."
    Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
    25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
    26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”
    27 “Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”
    28 Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

    A woman came along and kept begging Jesus. Jesus had mercy on the woman, he said she had great faith, and her request is granted. Do you still want to call Jesus disobedient to the Father? Are you so wicked to say Jesus was disobedient to the Father?
     
  4. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Before DHK closed a thread he said: “I will say this:

    Jesus never commanded anyone to be sinless and didn't expect anyone to attain such until we reach heaven.”

    That sounds twisted and deceitful to me.

    We are told for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy.” See 1 Peter 1:16.

    2 Corinthians 7:1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

    1 Peter 2:11 Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.

    1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

    1 John 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.

    2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.

    Read all of Romans Chapter 6-7

    We do not have to be done with sin you say. I will believe God’s Word and not you.
     
    #44 Moriah, Apr 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2012
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    To you perhaps. But what does God really intend for the believer?
    He commands us to daily:
    If we confess our sins he is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    --The verse would not be in the Bible if we did not have sins in the Bible.
    This is something every believer should be doing on a daily basis. However there are some that think they don't have sins to confess. John has something to say about these people also. This is what he says:

    1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    --Right before and after the verse quoted above (1John 1:9), John says that if you claim you do not sin, this is what you are saying:

    1. You deceive yourself.
    2. The truth is not in you.
    3. You make Christ a liar.
    4. The Word is not in you.

    The person who claims that he is sinless stands on the brink of heresy.
    The word "holy" is "agaios," meaning "separated" or "set apart." It has no such meaning as sinless.
    Holiness does not mean sinlessness. It means set apart, as in set apart from the world, and set apart for God's service.
    But it doesn't say to be sinless. We all have sinful desires. We need to abstain from them. That doesn't guarantee anyone a sinless life.
    The verbs here are in the present continuous tense indicating a lifestyle. For example one may commit the sin of adultery (we hope that doesn't happen). But if one continues in a lifestyle of adultery, then we would conclude that that person is probably not born again.
    See explanation given above.
    Turning away from wickedness does not guarantee sinlessness.
    We live in a sinful world. We see sin every day; it is all around us. We are confronted with it on a daily basis. If you believe you are sinless you stand on heresy.
    Which are you? A sinner that sins? Or a heretic according to 1John 1:10?
    Those are the only two options.
     
  6. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    I want to get back to the topic of the thread Miracles.

    Calvinists believe and teach that no one can believe in God and Jesus even after learning of God and Jesus, until God saves the person first. That is not biblical, in fact, that goes against the Word of God.

    The Bible tells us our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:14. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

    Just the fact that Jesus did miracles shows that Jesus wants to convince us to believe. God saving people first before they believe would be no need for miracles.

    Read and carefully John 2:8 Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.” They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.” 11 This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed at Cana in Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.

    His disciples put their faith in him after they saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed.

    NOWHERE in the scriptures does it say that God made people to believe by saving them first.

    Calvinism is full of falseness that goes against the Word of God.
     
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    A miracle never saved anyone.
    Abraham would not allow the rich man to have his request to permit Lazarus to go to his five brothers. He thought that if they would see "the miracle" of one risen from the dead they would be convinced and believe. Abraham said: Not so. They will not believe though one be raised from the dead. They have the law and the prophets. IOW, the Word is sufficient.

    Jesus performed miracles not to save people, but to demonstrate that he was God, deity.

    The believed that he was the Messiah because he revealed his glory. They were already his followers. Long before this, in Mat.4:19, did they start to follow Jesus. This event took place after that.
    I heard the word and got saved.
    I didn't have to see a miracle to get saved. What miracle of Jesus did you see?
     
  8. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    DHK,
    I am not interested in your opinions of what you think of me. I am also tired of you saying I say things that I do not. You are falsely accusing me and taking advantage of your moderating position. You want to keep preaching that it is normal for Christians to sin, but I want to help others to overcome. Do you think you can at least stop bombarding all of us with posts falsely accusing me of saying I am sinless and that Christians do not need to confess? Can you try to control yourself?
     
  9. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Where did anyone say a miracle saved someone? What do you have against me quoting scripture? Why do you fight God’s Word? The Word of God says that Jesus’ disciples put their faith in Jesus after they saw Jesus’ miracle.
    Do you not understand that Jesus is the person being raised from the dead?
    You are trying to discount what the scriptures say about miracles. You cannot.
    Do you hate God’s Word? God’s Word says after they saw the first miracle Jesus’ disciples put their faith in him. Stop going against Jesus. What is making you fight against the written word?
    Not everything is about you DHK. Maybe you could start a thread and tell us all your experience.
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No it doesn't say that. You are not reading it correctly. Read the verse carefully and correctly. When you omit phrases you don't get the right meaning.
    Stop changing the subject. The subject is "miracles." Do you not understand that Abraham said that the brothers' of the rich man would not believe even if a miracle would be done right before their eyes. Miracles is the subject here not the resurrection of Christ. Focus Moriah, focus!
    Why did Jesus perform the miracles he did?
    Changing the water into wine? Feeding the 5,000; Calm the Sea; Walk on water; Raise Lazarus from the dead, etc. He did it to prove that he was God. That was the purpose of his miracles. He demonstrated that he was God.

    John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
    Such personal accusations will only land you in trouble.
    You know I don't hate God's Word.
    The trouble here is that you are omitting a phrase out of the verse and thus misunderstanding what the verse says. They believed that he was the Messiah at this time. His glory was revealed unto them. Read carefully.

    Read also Mat.4:19 when they first began to follow Jesus. The event in Matthew 4 took place before the event in John.
    Miracles do not convince one of being saved. Not everything is about me, and I never said it was. Your personal attacks will just get you into trouble.
    I will say again for your own benefit.
    I got saved without the presence of a miracle.
    What about you? Did you see a miracle in order to be saved?
     
  11. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    I read it correctly. I read it correctly and copy and pasted it just as written. hahaha Here it is again for you.
    John 2:11 This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed at Cana in Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.
    Have you no dignity? I have not changed the subject.
    I will reveal to you another truth that you do not know…Abraham said, “'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'" They would not believe even if someone rises from the dead, that someone is about Jesus Christ.
    I fear God, not you. Your false accusations will land you in trouble. You think you can speak your mind to others and say all kind of lies, but no one else can ask you questions. What is the name for that?
    No way do I know that you do not hate God’s Word. You go against me and twist what I say when I am only speaking the scriptures. According to you, you say you do not even believe that a person is unable to believe in Jesus after learning of God…SO WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU DOING IN THIS TRHREAD GOING AGAINST ME. What else besides hate do you think I should make of it?
    Stop making up things. I am not omitting a phrase out of the verse. I quoted the scripture.
    Stop trying to discount John 2:11. You are not going against me, you are going against the Word of God.
    Your personal attacks will get you in trouble.
     
  12. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Readers please read and carefully consider John 16:30.

    John 16:30 Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God."

    What made Jesus’ disciples say, “This makes us believe that you came from God?”

    According to Calvinists and Lutherans, God saving them first causes them to believe, though that is nowhere in the scriptures. Here this scripture says that the disciples seeing that Jesus knowing all things and that he does not even need to have anyone ask him questions made them believe that he came from God.

    Calvinism is full of false doctrines, and goes against the Word of God.
     
    #52 Moriah, Apr 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2012
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You keep ignoring the bolded: "He thus revealed his glory." They were not saved at this point. They believed in him as the Messiah. They were convinced that he was the Messiah because his glory was revealed to him. They were already believers before this point.
    He said: "Send Lazarus that he may warn my brothers that they might not be tormented in this flame."
    Abraham said: "Not so, for they will not believe though one be raised from the dead (i.e. Lazarus). They have the law and the prophets; Let them believe them.
    Abraham would not allow Lazarus to testify to the rich man's brothers. Lazarus would have been the one "raised from the dead."
    Stop with this Moriah. There is no need for this kind of conversation.
    Again more false accusations. This has to stop. There is no need for it.
    True, you quoted John 2:11, but you ignored the phrase about the disciples seeing his glory. That is what made them believe that he was the Messiah; not what brought them to Christ. You are misunderstanding the verse.
     
  14. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    offensive post edited.
     
    #54 Moriah, Apr 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2012
  15. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Once again, you do not understand the doctrine of grace.

    No, your interpretation of Calvinism is full of false doctrines. The doctrine of grace is Biblical.
     
  16. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    I understand that it is probably hard for you to hear that your religion has strange doctrines that go against the Word of God. You do not even want to admit that anyone opposing it can get the true definition. I have given you a definition from an Internet site and a link for one of the doctrines of Calvinism called total depravity. Total depravity is the belief that no one can learn about God and Jesus and believe, until God saves them first, and that this saving causes them to believe. No scripture says that, it is a manufactured belief from man’s thoughts and assumptions. Total depravity is false, all the other doctrines of Calvinism collapse when this one doctrine is exposed.

    If you want to believe only in the Word of God, then I urge you to search the scriptures to see if you can find even one scripture that says no one can believe in God after learning of Him until God saves him first. Do not let anyone misled you by showing you a few scriptures that can sound like that is what God is saying. I hope that you can find it in your heart to investigate these things and pray about them, and realize not one scripture says what Calvin says.
     
  17. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    First off, it's not "my religion". It is what the Bible says. Second of all, you do not have a proper view of it so you are arguing against something that I would also argue against - so we have no argument with each other.

    I had never been taught the doctrines of grace. I was reading through the Scriptures and saw it clearly in there. It made no sense to me as I had been taught all of my life the idea of full free will and man being able to find God on their own and God waiting for us to come to Him. But as I read the Scriptures, my world was rocked because I saw something else in there. I didn't understand it and it drove me more into the Word and it wasn't until I had studied it for a time and began to understand that my theology was wrong that I discovered that there were others that taught this and that there was even a name for it! So you tell me to study the Scriptures and that is exactly how I even began to understand this theology. So yes, I'd also tell everyone to study the Scriptures themselves and not read it with the blinders of the theology that man has taught them and they just might see the truth as well.
     
  18. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Nowhere in the Bible does it say what Calvin says.
    So, are you serious that you do not know that your religion says no one can believe in God after learning of Him unless God causes him to believe by saving him with the Holy Spirit? I gave you a definition from a Web that says that, and I can give you any Calvin site of your choice that will tell you that. It is like talking to a blind man.
    From what you say here, you started out in error and ended in more error. Why would you ever believe that we find God on our own? Where do you get that we find God without first hearing of Him?
    The Bible says we get faith by hearing the word, and that we cannot hear the word unless someone preaches it. Are you ready to admit error now, why not?
    That is what I call the imitation revelation. Satan masquerades as an angel of light, no wonder Calvinists claim they were saved and later had a big enlightenment that rocked their world, when the great enlightenment should have been when you were saved.
    Wow, how were you ever saved without Calvin?
    Many people go to seminary school and of course still do not know the truth.
    Whatever did people do before Calvin came along 1500 years later? You do realize that your doctrines are taught by men that studied Calvinism don’t you?
     
  19. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    See, you are asserting that which it does not say.

    You misrepresent what I stated.

    Oh - I was fully saved when I was saved as a child. I had no "great enlightenment" but instead my theology was matured and brought into line with Scripture.

    That's just stupidity.


    Calvin has nothing to do with it honestly. It is Scripture - not what Calvin taught. It's what Jesus taught.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    At least they were the group that actually believed in the OT scriptures and in God!

    (Tongue firmly in both cheeks!)
     
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