1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Monogenes

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Feb 22, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,349
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think we already beat this horse to death in the previous thread. :rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with @Van BDAG does not only allow for only begotten.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,891
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Dr. Walter Martin in his Kingdom of the Cults taught that since the Bible nowhere taught the "eternal Son," that eternal generation of the second person of the Trinity was also not Biblical. He taught that that Biblically the Word became the Son in His incarnation, John 1:14; Luke 1:35.
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,891
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Nicene Creed is wrong teaching, ". . . the only begotten Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages, light from light, . . ." The unique eternal Son of God is not a "light from light." He is the "True Light," John 1:9; Hebrews 1:3. The teaching "begotten from the Father before all ages," is the basis of Ariaism. That is the reason the creed must qualify "begotten" with "not made." I am a Biblical and philosophical Trinitaran. That the Persons, God the Father, eternal Son of God and the Holy Spirit are the same YHWH.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,913
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why waste time attempting to imply fault where none exists. Are you saying you think the Word was never the Son of God before the incarnation? I cannot believe you would hold such as unstudied view.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,913
    Likes Received:
    1,017
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Like Like x 1
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,891
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    μονογενής is a compond word from μόνος meanig alone and γίνομαι meaning to come into existence.

    μονογενής meaning one of a kind.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    37818 you are confused and have things backwards. your confusion stems from a wrong view of the word "begotten", you keep insisting on framing it in English nuance rather than Koine Greek, you also have a mistaken historical knowledge of Athanasius and the Council of Nicaea.

    your statements seem to me to be undisciplined. so rather than injure any good relationship between us i will cede and bow out of the discussion.

    perhaps at a later date we might take up the mantle again.

    Have you had any formal education in theology, church history, Greek, Hebrew... ?

    I will admit that you are probably gifted with a superior mind over mine - i think you would excel in a formal education.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,891
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Say this does not make your claim true.
    If you really think I am confused, then please quote my first false statement. And show why it is wrong. Please do this one step at a time.
     
  11. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Got it. You are not willing to answer the question.
     
  12. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Got it. Monogenes can only mean what Van says it means. There is no point discussing it further.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    David, what are you agreeing with here? Thanks.
     
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    i have issues with engaging too long with a brother when ii seems fruitless.
    Again i cede.

    some other time.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    An equivalent of "only begotten" is in the German Luther Bible and the Spanish Reina-Valera, which were translated from the Greek.
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    there is more than one Greek word which translates to "begotten".
     
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That BDAG does not necessitate begotten to be used.
     
  18. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks, David.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    15,891
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Greek does not mean only "begotten." It was first translated that way in Latin.
    Saying that does not make it so.
    German Luther Bible, John 3:16 . . . Also hat Gott die Welt geliebet, daß er seinen eingeborenen Sohn gab, auf daß alle, die an ihn glauben, nicht verloren werden, sondern das ewige Leben haben. . . . eingeborenen. native
     
  20. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, look at what native means, and also the parts of the word -- geborenen means born. Another indication that Luther intends "only begotten" can be seen in the NGU-DE changing it to einzige, only.

    Regardless, we know some Greek speakers used monogenes in the sense of only begotten.
     
    #40 rlvaughn, Feb 24, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...