No man perishes for want of an atonement

They are condemned for their deeds. Period. Faith/belief is never once mentioned in the final judgement. It's for deeds done while in the body.

 

Thanks!
Think that at times it appears that there are some here who lean towards more of a presby sotierology view and others leaning towards a baptist view, both still DoG!

 

Would say from my perespective as being one of the so called" 4 pointers" in DoG...

That God DID place all sin for all mankind upon jesus on Cross, atonement sufficient to potentially be able to have all saved
BUT
that in order for it to be effectually, to actually get applied, person MSY reeceive it by faith, and ONLY those whom God has elected in Christ can and actually will place faith in christ!

 

Two things. Scan et al are saying the atonement IS applied to each man, saved or not. Their sins have been paid for. They are walking about washed clean of every sin and stain except one: that of unbelief. That is not what Charles Hodge is saying.

On the day of atonement, the sins of the nation were atoned for and the atonement applied to each Israelite. Remember, the levitical priesthood is not of faith. It was a carnal ordinance. It was all outward, and outward observance was mandatory or the offender was alienated—no longer considered an Israelite. The blood of goats only atoned in an earthly sense, and saved one only from the earthly consequences of his sins.

Israel does not represent the world. Egypt and Babylon represent the world, and they have no stone on the breastplate. They were not represented by the high priest, and they are not in view on the day of atonement.

 

Yep.

I take "all men" to mean all men who will come to Christ in true repentance and faith. They alone receive salvation. They are the elect. "My sheep hear My voice." Just the sheep, but all the sheep. Not the goats. Christ did not provide atonement for unbelievers. 'He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God' (John 8:47, NIV)

Well, I'm sorry you think you're being ridiculed, but I'm not surprised if you are because you are consistently misunderstanding what Hodge is saying.

Let me put it as simply as possible.

1. No one for whom the Lord Jesus Christ has shed His precious blood will perish eternally. Every one will be saved (John 6:39).

2. No one who comes to the Lord Jesus Christ in true faith and repentance will be turned away under any circumstances (John 6:40).

3. These two groups of people are the same (John 10:27-29).

BTW, the idea that people are not judged for their sins but only for unbelief is unscriptural (John 8:24 etc.).

Steve

 

Is this where the Arminians, at least some of them,get the idea of God was in Christ reconciling World back to Himself, so per them mankind was in "general" forginen of original/inherited Sin, and was back basically where adam was, making free will choice accept/reject Christ?
if so, this would be another area on concern, as it would mean that we would be the one to decide our own salvation, permitting God to save us!

 

I dont know what I am missing here but do you really think that a man of Hodges stature in Princeton at the time would forgo all his beliefs on the doctrines of atonement, sweeping them aside & start promoting Arminian doctrine? How long do you think he would have stayed as a person of credibility & stature in the Calvinist community & the Presbyterian church?

 

As a side note though.....J.I. Packer wrote.....The gospel is not "believe that Christ died for everybody's sins, and therefore for yours," any more than it is, " believe that Christ died only for certain peoples sins, and so perhaps not for yours."The gospel is, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for sins, and now offers Himself as your Savior. " This is the message which we are to take to the world. We have no business to ask to put faith in any view of the extent of the atonement; our job is to point them to the living Christ, and summon them to trust in Him.

I concur with that assessment!:thumbs:

 

Well then brother, Ive not heard this & its news to me but Im fairly young in the faith. I would like to see other peoples views recorded so I can verify.

 

Too bad Charles Hodge didn't have you around to straighten him out. After all, I'm sure your book on systematic theology will out sell Hodges given enough time.

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=70813&page=3

But now that you've learned to be concise, let's clarify your judge allegory:

Are the sins of all men paid for? Even those of the unbelievers. Yes or no?

 

Question...

can they be paid for, but the person not receive benefit for their payment?

 

but Not effectual towards all, right?

 

It's effectual only for the elect, Matthew 1:21, 2 Timothy 2:10. If each of us would preach the Gospel with this understanding (2 Timothy 2:8-10) that there are elect out there that will respond and be saved, we would do well. This is what our Lord did, and also what Paul did, it was also seen at Pentecost, as His people believed, those that are not His, of course did not believe. The Gospel message reveals those who belong to Him and those who do not, and at times those who at first don't imediately believe, and perhaps even show animosity toward the truth (as Paul in 1 Timothy 1) may at a latter time by coming to faith prove they are His elect.