Mark 13:32
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
The fact that Jesus doesn't know the day or hour of His return has nothing to say about His perfection as a divine being. Since the future doesn't exist yet, it is, by definition, unknowable.
One could say that Jesus voluntarily emptied Himself of foreknowledge by taking on human flesh, but wouldn't He at least remember the date of His return if that were the case?
Here is just one example from scripture, among many, of God reacting to human choices:
Genesis 22:12
“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” He said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
The day and the hour of Christ's return are not predetermined, but instead will come to pass at the appropriate season.
Acts 1:7
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
The due season will come once the Gospel has been preached to all peoples, giving them a chance of repentance before the Second Coming, but the exact date is yet to be determined.
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
2 Peter 3
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...
Imagine how many embarrassments in Christian history would have been prevented if Christ's followers had, instead of making false predictions of Christ's return, recognized that no one knows the day nor the hour, not even the Son.
"No one knows about that day or hour...nor the Son" Mark 13:32
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021.
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Genesis 22:12
“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” He said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
Do you know who Gregory Boyd is? This is his case for believer's baptism:
The Case For Believer's Baptism - Greg Boyd - ReKnew
Greg Boyd is far from being a heretic. He is, along with N. T. Wright, one of the best conservative scholars on the historical Jesus today.
The Myth of a Christian Nation: How the Quest for Political Power is Destroying the Church
This is the statement of faith from Greg Boyd's church, which seems like a pretty standard Baptist statement of faith:
Beliefs
"In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity."
Ecclesiastes 7:18
It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes. -
The future as already been set and fixed by God see Revelation! -
Beliefs
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Jesus explained, Acts of the Apostles 1:7, ". . . It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. . . ." Limiting His omniscience in some way and fully being God is nothing new to Him, John 1:18 KJV, Genesis 22:12. He is a distinct Person from His Father
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When Jesus says, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father,” (Mark 13:32), he is saying that determining the date is the Father’s responsibility, not that he has already set the date.
To borrow an analogy from Greg Boyd, the Father knows the hour of Christ’s return in the same way an earthly father knows when his daughter is old enough to date. This doesn’t mean he has a date fixed in his mind; only that he’ll know when the right time has come.
In the same way a daughter can hasten that day by demonstrating maturity, so can the church also, according to 2 Peter 3, hasten the Lord’s return by obediently spreading the gospel.[6]
Many also point to messianic prophecies as a demonstration of God’s exhaustive foreknowledge of future events. Again, according to open theology, God in his omnipotence can bring about whatever he wishes. If he desired to fulfill these messianic prophecies in Christ, he could have, with or without exhaustive foreknowledge of future events.
Prophecy and Its Place Within Open Theism | Garrett HamClick to expand...
"In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity."
Open Theism Bible Verses in 33 Categories -
Humble Disciple said: ↑Whether one accepts or rejects open theism has nothing to do with the essentials of salvation.Click to expand...
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37818 said: ↑I personally reject "open theism." Rather I hold the view that the acts of the Son being both a distinct Person and God are what what "open theists" missinterpret.Click to expand...
"Gersonides, bothered by the old question of how God's foreknowledge is compatible with human freedom, holds that what God knows beforehand is all the choices open to each individual. God does not know, however, which choice the individual, in his freedom, will make."[5]
Rabbi Yeshayahu Horowitz explained the apparent paradox of his position by citing the old question, "Can God create a rock so heavy that He cannot pick it up?" He said that we cannot accept free choice as a creation of God's, and simultaneously question its logical compatibility with omnipotence.
Open Theism in Medieval JudaismClick to expand...
We can be good Bereans, using our God-given reason to search the scriptures ourselves and make our own conclusions.
Isaiah 1:18
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isaiah 43:26
Put Me in remembrance, let us argue our case together;
State your cause, that you may be proved right.
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
"In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity."
1 Corinthians 8
2 Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. 3 But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
Ecclesiastes 7
18 It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.
Open Theism Bible Verses in 33 Categories -
Humble Disciple said: ↑If the future is, by definition, unknowable, since it doesn't yet even exist, this says nothing about God's perfection as a divine being.Click to expand...
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Open theism is fully compatible with the corporate view of election, that God elected the church as a whole, rather than specific individuals, to salvation.
The Corporate View of Election
If God Changes His Mind, So Can I
I have no association with Leighton Flowers, and he is not an open theist. -
Squire Robertsson AdministratorAdministrator
As the OP is now perma-banned, this thread is now closed.