Psalm 106:40
"Therefore the wrath of the LORD was kindled against His people, So that He abhorred His own inheritance"
No such thing as "free will"
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 1, 2022.
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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On one side we have exhaustive determinists, claiming our every thought and action was predetermined by God. This view is openly endorsed by Hyper-Calvinist, and perhaps secretly held by some main-stream Calvinists. However, on the other side are the majority of professing Christians, who believe we are "free" to choose whatever we fancy. Buried in this group are some fifth columnists claiming we can only "fancy" the dark side.
Lying between these two canards is biblical truth.
The biblical truth is that fallen humanity has limited autonomous will. We can choose what we fancy, but unless God has revealed His good news, we cannot choose to trust in it. Thus our will is obviously limited to what we have experienced or imagined.
Next we are predisposed in ways that curtail the likelihood of choosing to follow God's will. For example, if given the choice between self preservation and doing the right thing, we would tend to save ourselves. This is not a hard limit but an aggregate limit.
If God hardens our hearts, does that not limit our autonomous will? If we harden our own hearts, through the practice of sin, does that not limit our autonomous will? If we have not been "drawn" (attracted) by the Father, can we fully trust in Christ?
Basically both the "Free will" (unconstrained will) claims and the "Bondage of the Will" (Totally constrained Will) claims are bogus unbiblical doctrine -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
Again your agrument FAILS! -
Since you are clueless to this truth, you cannot see your error. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
The text you quote supports free will, you just do not accept that it does.
Joh 3:20 For everyone practicing G4238 (G5723) evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Joh 3:21 But he who does G4160 (G5723) the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
G5723
Tense-Present See [G5774]
Voice-Active See [G5784]
Mood -Participle See [G5796]
The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time.
The active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action.
The Greek participle corresponds for the most part to the English participle, reflecting "- ing" or "- ed" being suffixed to the basic verb form.
Notice that the one practicing "evil" and the one "who does/practices" truth are both in the active voice. The are the ones doing the action it is not being done to them or for them. Since you say that man has the free will to sin then it is obvious that man also has the free will to trust in God.
We see the same situation in
Joh 3:36 He who believes G4100 (G5723) in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe G544 (G5723) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
I could post all the intervening verses but I am sure you can find them in your bible. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Your first mistake is that you ignore the text. When it says God loves the Whole World what do you think it means? You simply disregard scripture that you do not like as it does not fit your theology.
Your trusting in yourself not the bible. -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
"The eyes of the whole world are on this moment" does that mean every individual? No. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
You try to support your view by grabbing quotes from outside the biblical text and confuse hyperbole with scripture. Why do you not just trust what the bible says? You claim to be a Christian and yet you would rather trust a secular text than the bible. You seem very confused.
What does 1Jn 5:18-19 tell you. Christians are protected but the rest of humanity is under the power of the evil one. Even if you say it is collective then it still means all individuals. You work way to hard to avoid the obvious. -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
You are really going to equate Christ Jesus being the saviour of the whole world to the illustration that you made up.
Do you not think that God wants all people to be saved? The bible says He does, 1Ti 2:4 "...who desires all men to be saved". Or are you going to tell me that He really only wants to save groups of people.
It seems you are letting your theology cloud your vision. Your philosophy is dictating what you see when you read the bible. -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
Now I do not think you are dumb so the only answer is that you refuse to take the text as it reads because it does not fit with your theology. If the bible text does not fit your theology then it is time your change your theology to fit with the bible.
Why do you not accept the text of the bible but rather openly disagree with what it says. "So either God can't accomplish His will, or that isn't His will." Do you actually read what you post. You are putting yourself over God. -
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