NUTS FOR ARMINIANS TO CRACK

Thanks Brother Joe. I respect your belief as well. Note, I did not require a man to be the 'gospel preacher'.

But, this is not reason enough to cause me any distress with any. This is how I have personally resolved the question of infants and the mentally incapable.

Bro. Dallas

 

Hi Frogman;

Circumcision of the heart is not regeneration and Psa 110:3 is addressed to the Jews as a people they carry the name Israel. Not much support for regeneration as circumcision of the heart.
If Circumcision of the heart is regeneration why isn't there a verse that says so.
I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree. Your still a brother in Christ.
May God Bless You
Mike

 

I can agree with that and I do count you a dear Brother in Christ.

I even also count Yelsew as a dear brother in Christ, I don't know how anyone could be so adamant in thier belief and not have been drawn to God through Christ by the Holy Spirit. You will note that while his system is honoring to man, he does make habitual notice of Christ as the object of his faith.

If we had to agree amongst ourselves there again, none would be eternally saved.

Bro. Dallas

 

Hi Brother Joe;

The two words at the end of my response were not intentional. Originally it said "these verses weren't meant for gentiles" I changed my mind and didn't delete the entire sentence. Thanks for pointing it out but I'm not able to edit it now. Thats what I get for not proof reading it before I posted.
May God Bless You;
Mike

 

Then you have simply NOT been reading my posts! And you have misunderstood me.

Peter and James told us that FAITH without works is DEAD FAITH. My faith in Jesus the Christ is very much alive, vibrant and growing Stronger as I work out my salvation.

Notice sir that I said "working out my salvation", NOT "working for salvation"!

Am I save? I hold with all my might to the Promise of Jesus, that, "Whosoever believeth in Him shall have Everlasting life." I believe in Jesus with all my heart, and I am doing all that is in my power to retain my faith in Him until faith is no longer needed. I do that because scriptures tell me it is possible to lose one's faith and thereby lose salvation!

So BBNewton, though I truly appreciate your prayers, you need not pray for my salvation because I am holding strongly, gaining strength daily, to the Promise of Salvation.

 

You are the one who don't get it! You completely misunderstand what I've been saying all along! I am truly crushed that you have failed so miserably to here my messages!

 

I am miserable, I agree. I have also failed many times and often, categorized as a miserable failure.
:(

Well, Good Morning Yelsew2. Hope you have a blessed day in the Lord today


God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

The Pharisees were very adamant in thier belief too. Were they drawn to God by the Holy Spirit too? There are very adamant Mormons who also 'believe in Jesus the son of God'.

 

Dear Elader,
What is your point? I am extending the benefit of the doubt to a brother whose theology is that of Christ mixed with human merit.

I do know of two pharisees who were immediately drawn by the Savior himself.

Just because the Bible is silent on many others, doesn't mean they were not present.

But, if you wish, you can elaborate on your point. I may very easily have misunderstood your meaning.

God Bless
Bro. Dallas

 

I was merely questioning your logic.

 

Thanks for the check up, but I wasn't comparing Yelsew2 to the pharisees, nor to any who are adamant in thier beliefs. I qualified Yelsew2 by the same qualification I possess, that of Christ as the object of my faith.

Now, whether Yelsew2 has rested in that faith, I cannot say.

As far as Mormons go, they are a different ball-game. They may speak as though they 'accept Christ', but they deny him.

In the vision provided by Joseph Smith, there is mention of Father and Son, I asked two who were witnessing to me one afternoon, where is the promised comforter? The Holy Spirit???Where is he, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ.

They could not answer. They have not Christ through any religious system they have subscribed to. If they have not his Spirit, they are none of his.

Now, you are welcome to question my logic in any thing I post, but at least try to do it in a post where my logic is questionable. ;)

Bro. Dallas

 

You do me a great dis-service by making the claim that I honor man.

You fail to recognize that God made man, man did not make man!

By making the claims you, the Calvinist, the PB and others do against man you are making those claims against God who made us! Surely that does not please the God! Because such claims, that you state, raise you to the level of Judge. There is but one who judges all, and that is the Maker!

God has reserved his judgment of man to the individual, that is, each individual man must face God's judgment. No one can stand for you in the judgment. Now, because Jesus took upon himself all that would be charged against us in judgment, thereby making it possible for us to avoid the second death judgment and have everlasting life. The final judgment will be of those who do not respond to God in FAITH.

The effect of all of your claims against man are merely "the pot calling the kettle black". The pot is not in a position to be able to make that judgement. And man is not in the position to be able to judge man as you oft do by making the charges against man that you do such as "totally depraved", "totally unable to respond", etc.!

I realize that man will never be more than man, the God created being. Man will never be God, even though God has seen fit to grant those who have faith in HIM everlasting life. Man will never be more than man! I will, however, continue to believe that God made man and Called his "product" very good! Who are we to call that very same "product" VERY BAD? Even God did not call us perfect, but HE did tell us to strive toward perfection! NO, he did not say that HE would make us perfect, it is our task to work toward perfection, even though we cannot attain for ourselves. By working toward perfection we are focusing on the one who is perfect!

Don't be ignorant of the truth Bro. Dallas! God made man in his image and his image is not "Totally Depraved", NOT "unable to..."?

No, I am not saying that man does not sin. You have known me long enough, and everyone else here knows what I have been posting about sin. God has made the way for those who sin to be made "as if" sinless. 1 John says, "If we confess our sins, HE is faithful and Just to forgive us our sins and to CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS." If one is cleansed, then one is, in effect, "sinless", not totally depraved, per Calvinism! Yes, the same one who is cleansed can get dirty again, but confession will bring cleansing again. But it boils down to FAITH that saves us for eternity. Only those who have faith ARE saved...sinless or not!

God really, really, really likes us a lot!

 

yelsew2,
you are denying the effect of the fall of man. God called his creation good prior to the fall. Prior to the fall, prior to the fall.

I am judging no one above what scripture says of all.

You are presupposing that which is dead in trespasses and sin has the same capacity to do in equal righteousness as a believer. That is the error in your understanding, not mine.

In making this presupposition, you deny the very words of Christ, that to which says except ye be born again, except your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees.

Please, read the Bible again. You are missing the point. The point is not that man created man, although sinful, totally depraved, dead in trespasses in sins, man did not reproduce his like kind from the seed that was within him until after the fall, (a minor inconvenience to your theological system, I might add).

All which was pronounced of man prior to the fall, was, is and remains lost except that Christ came and spoke, we had no cloke for our sins.

Further, your post denies so much scripture that I don't even know where to begin.

Dear Brother, that which is not done in faith is a sin; therefore, where man has no faith in Christ is he sinning? if so, then there is a sin for which Christ did not atone, thus, your system flounders upon the very foundation you lay it.

Except the foundation be laid upon Christ...

Why do you think we shall never be raised up above created man? We are co-inheritors with Christ, he is like our elder Brother, is he not exalted higher than the angels? How can we receive the inheritance through him, yet remain as low as created man?

How then has Christ restored that which he did not take away?

My view has nothing to do with Calvinism, nothing to do with the PB brethren, nor the missionary brethren, and it also has nothing to do with, nor in common with humanistic philosophy.

Just like the true Calvinist, the true PB or the true missionary Baptist, I give the praise and the glory to God alone for the salvation of any. Of any, myself included, not found to enjoy an interest in that finished work, I too will say AMEN and go to my place believing in Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Yet unable to change the mind, purpose and will of God, only to stand in awe at his glory.

To too many Christians, eternal life is no more than an extension of or a final acheivement of that which is enjoyed as happiness in this present material world.

Therefore, systems of soteriology are devised based upon how you will miss granny so and so if you don't believe in Jesus.

Come on, read more of the Bible and less of worldly philosophies and mixtures thereof.

Bro. Dallas

 

Well put, Bro Dallas.

Yelsew,

I'm sorry to say it, but your theology is throughly man centered. What you believe in goes beyone Arminianism. Your salvation starts with your faith that you generate from within yourself and then you keep your own salvation by your own work:

"My eternal destiny is in my own hands and that is why I am working so hard, Praying so hard, and gaining ever more faith."

And when people on this board honestly and earnestly try to show you Scriptures that contradict your view, you dismiss the Scripture.(i.e. I don't believe David was an authority on sin...Paul wrote that because he was depressed...I don't agree with everything Paul wrote...and so on)

The fact is that if God were to remove His gracious hand of restraining grace from you, you would follow your own desires down into the pit. Paul knew this (i.e. Romans 7), Bro Dallas knows this, I know it, in fact all true Christians know this. We are helpless without the mighty grace of God. I pray for you that you may humble yourself and know this someday too.

 

NO, I do not presuppose anything of the sort.

You are speaking of a CONDITION that man is found in as the result of one man's sin, and you are saying that condition has taken away what God put into man in the creation. That simply is not true!

I am speaking of the man's God given abilities and Attributes as the man God created. The FALL did not take away even one of man's God given abilities and Attributes. The fall may have limited mans ability to obtain the maximum from his abilities, but it did not take any of them away! Every aspect of humanity remains as God created it! Man's sin severed the umbilical chord between God and man! When the umbilical chord is cut in childbirth, the child does not change, but his connection to mother becomes more complex, not automatic as it was, and the child begins the natural struggle to survive outside the womb. The mother has not changed either, but the Condition of the relationship for both has most definitely changed. The fall of man is like the cutting of the umbilical chord, in that the "automatic relationship" between God and man no longer supports the man. A new CONDITION of existance is present.

Another example: Look at any given church and compare it to any given Jailhouse...Speaking only of the occupants of both. The occupants of both are equal in every way concerning their God given abilities! The difference between them, is the CONDITION in which they find themselves. Those in the Jailhouse are there because they violated law and got caught, those in the church haven't been caught yet! But otherwise they are equals! Those in Jail retain all their God given abilities and Attributes, and they can use them for good or evil, the choice remains theirs! Many come to faith in Jail, and when they do they are exactly in the same place as those in that church who have faith. NO DIFFERENCE! If those in jail were "totally depraved", they would not have the ability to hear the word of God and to come to faith, but they did? AMAZING!

There would be no one in the Jailhouse if they had made the right choices, and obeyed the law. There are none...well, maybe one or two, who are in the jail house because they are "TOTALLY DEPRAVED", all the rest are there because they "sinned" against society and got caught, tried, convicted, and "Judged" to a penalty for their sin.

Which brings us back to "FAITH COMETH BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD!" It is not REGENERATION FIRST, THEN FAITH, BUT FAITH WHICH IS REGENERATION, AND THAT COMES FROM HEARING THE WORD AND BELIEVING IN GOD.

 

There is nothing I have ever seen in the etymology of either 'faith' or 'regeneration' that makes them the same.

If faith is regeneration then you would be closer to the truth. Faith is not regeneration, or else regeneration (the new birth) is something hoped for but not seen, which is the Biblical definition of faith.

Faith is a result of regeneration. Prior to the new birth our Savior says a man cannot see, nor enter into the kingdom of God.

Do not confuse faith as regeneration, it is not.

Regeneration is the quickening, the quickening is life, by faith we know we have passed from death unto life, but we do not pass that way by nor because of faith.

I know some who 'received' Christ while in prison and in other similar situations. Unfortunately, their perseverance did not prove their regeneration. Their conversion being one of expedience rather than by the quickening power of God. BTW, which power is not hindered by walls, fences nor razor wire.

You are correct, I have no doubt that some do receive quickening within those 'conditions'. However, I have little confidence this is or was a result of the operation of some or any man upon them, or else it was with a veiw of swaying the 'judges' opinion of them as many prove to be.

Bro. Dallas

 

Where have I ever stated that man reproduced himself prior to being tossed out of the garden?

Where does scripture state that God altered what he made because what he made, did a no-no? It is your theology that has all the inconveniences because you insist that the whole of creation changed because man disobeyed God.

Was what the serpent did with Eve not a sin? Wasn't the serpent "cursed" because of what he did? You see sin was present in the Garden before Eve ate of the fruit.

Man is what God made, the fall did not change that! Man is in the condition that man is in because man disobeyed God. God did not alter anything! Man did, man slammed the door in God's face. However, having no 'creation power' man could not alter the man God made...So man remains today the same man that God made in Adam! It's just man's relationship with his maker that has been altered! But you will not see that either! so what's the use?

 

All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. (Ephesians 2:3)

You stated:

"Man is what God made, the fall did not change that!"

No, the fall changed man down to his very nature. God did not create Adam as on object of wrath. Its not just the relationship that changed; man's nature changed.

Yelsew, Pelagianism has been condemned as heresy by every ecumenical councel in the history of Christendom. Even the RCC (council of Trent) condemned your beliefs about man as heresy. Doesn't that bother you at all?

 

You are certainly not convincing BBNewton, you like Frogman do not have a clue that someone else has not given you out of a commentary!

Your understanding lacks credibility because you leave out of the equation what God put into the equation. You leave all of the God given abilities and Attributes out of man, rendering God's creation null and void of ability.

Granted, man is confined to the place where creator God placed him, but he is not confined to the condition that men like you and frogman consign him to! Man remains God's prize creation, man retains dominion over the rest of God's creation. NOTHING CHANGED except that man sinned, and all men since have a propensity to do the same. The result is a broken relationship with the creator God, who has since been redeeming those men to Him who have faith IN HIM!

I wouldn't be so quick to label others if I were you!

 

When YOU find the truth, it shall set you free! Thank God almighty I'm free at last!