NUTS FOR ARMINIANS TO CRACK

Brother Yelsew,

ME: Does every man have the exact same nature spiritually?

YOUR ANSWER: Every man has the same propensity to sin!

ME: You didnt answer my question. I didnt ask you about man's propensity to sin. AGAIN I ask, does every man have the exact same nature before becoming born again?

Take care,

Brother Joe

 

SAME ANSWER!

 

In the nature of mankind, brothers "fallout" with each other all the time! True they are still biologically brothers, but in spirit they have separated themself from one another. The Christian Brotherhood is not Biological, it is Spiritual. With Spiritual Brotherhood, FAITH is the element that holds brothers together (birds of a feather...). If one loses faith or if the faith gets broken, they are no longer brothers until the faith is re-established between them, and even though the faith is re-established, the Trust seldom measures up to what it was before the Faith was Broken.

It is the Broken FAITH and the resulting fractured Trust among Brothers of the faith, that causes Denominationalism, Doctrinal differences, Factions in the Body of Christ, etc.

It is Broken faith between man and God that results in man facing the second death!

If you cannot see how that works then you simply are not looking! It happens all the time, in virtually every aspect of the FAITH of Christianity, and in nearly every aspect of Society in general. Hence we have "politics". Hence we have RELIGIONS. Hence we have Wars!

And YES, it is the same principle in each individual human being.

Now to set the record straight! CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING

but WE CAN DISOWN HIM! We can lose our FAITH even though HE IS FAITHFUL!

 

Joe,

I see your point. And I think that is a good answer. But what is it about the child that the Holy Spirit makes us "like"? Even if you give the Holy Spirit the "credit" for making us like a child that still doesn't answer the question of what was in a child that God wants us to be like. Make sense?

 

Bro. Joe, you accused Skandelon thusly,

Then you turn right around and do this to me.

Can't you see that the CONTEXT OF 2 Timothy 2:13 is verses 11-13, and that 11-13 contains ONE (1) contiguous statement by Paul to Timothy? Verse 14-18 is Paul giving warning to Timothy about FALSE TEACHERS.

*** There shall be no name calling or flaming permitted on the BB. Edited by Barnabas, BB Administrator ***

[ March 28, 2004, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]

 

Did you look?

Then Bro. Dallas posted

So in the case of this discussion I post the content of a link that Bro. Dallas, posted on the TULIP Topic, Frogman, posted 22-03-2004 07:09,

I wonder of Moses had read this if he would have written what he did in Genesis. Makes one wonder in light of all that is omitted from scripture, such as the Americas, Australia, Middle Asia, China, the Far east, the African Continent, Western Europe, Greenland, Iceland, New Zealand, etc. If the description of the Creation in Genesis was truly all inclusive? Just another thing in the Bible that one must take in BY FAITH!

So does "every" really mean ALL? Does "ALL" really mean ALL?

Have I stated your position accurately Bro. Dallas?

 

Dear Brother Yelsew2,
I stated concerning the 'division' of the earth that I was not dogmatic on it. I do believe it. I believe as well that the close proximity to the confusion of tongues renders this a non-isolated event.

Regarding the 'herb' question, I also did not limit my discussion of that to the Genesis account and if you will read what I wrote you will find that Romans 8 certainly teaches that the whole of creation will certainly be redeemed. This idea is also found in one of the prophets, Isaiah I think speaking of the future kingdom age, and is further supported in Revelation as the Bible discusses the new earth, then we also hear Peter's voice through inspiration added speaking of the renovation of the present earth.

No, dear Brother, I am not drawing either belief from an isolated scriptural occurrence, nor am I doubting the inspiration of any portion of the word of God.

You must certainly recognize now that God did call all of his creation very good, but that the sequence of scripture places this at the very least a full day prior to the fall of man.

In that fall, the whole nature of the creation of God has been plunged into depravity. Upheld in the natural laws only by the commong grace and mercy of God.

In the discussion of all, the qualifier is that to whom these things are testified in due time; that is in their season. This, if a word study is completed will be seen to be the time appointed, thus, all the elect will be provided a testimony of thier position in Christ in their appointed time, all without fail shall receive this testimony, in spite of me and you. :eek:

Again, concerning the supposed 'ommission' of the so called 'new worlds' you must certainly recognize that every ancient civilization possesses an account of a worldwide 'flood' which destroyed mankind. IN China, the particular account speaks of one man being preserved in a boat, instead of the biblical account. Only this one man is similar to the son of heaven, he establishes the Chinese peoples and brings forth his kinsmen. Much of world history attests to the fact that the sons of Noah understood the promises of God as taught obviously to them from their earthly father, and that varying versions of it has been found in civilizations around the world is a further testimony to a very real possibility that all mankind not only came from the sons of Noah as the Biblical account provides, but that they were once free to roam over the entire mass of land, all the 'waters' being gathered together into one place. Thus, there is no 'continent' that you have listed that is left to be omitted from the word of God, for at the first, there was but one land mass as there was but one language and that all people come from one single source, fallen depraved Adam (which is the Hebrew word for both 'earth' and man). Therefore his name is not limited to himself alone but immediately engulfs the whole of the human race, even as scripture bears witness I should say.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Granted the scriptures do reveal much, and like you I do not base any particular believe that I have on only one scripture, but you haven't given me the credibility that you demand for youself. Hence strong words appear on the page.

One day when you see what scriptures reveal about man and about the fall, and about man's present condition, and what is truly needed "IN MAN" for salvation you will remember these discussions, as I have the discussions that I participated in as my life progressed and my spiritual maturity grew, and though you will not remember my name, as the concepts reveal themselves to you, you will remember somewhere in your past they were presented by someone to you.

 

I do not know your name...I mean is it Yelsew, or Yelsew2???? :D

Dear Brother, I was raised by loving parents and other family who raised me in the same teaching you now believe. Because I have finally taken to study of the Bible than to rely upon their 'fears' for my source, I have learned better than to believe the things they have taught me in my youth.

I do believe it is consistent to teach, and receive as truth, that man if able to 'choose' to believe in Christ is also able to 'choose' to discontinue in that belief.

But, the scriptures do not teach that, Christ himself called this gift eternal life, now it is either eternal or it is not; it is either a gift or it is not, if either one, even the 'eternal' nature of life can be possibly lost, then there is no truth to found anywhere, not even in the whole or portions of scripture.

If one phrase of it can be denied, the whole of it must be thrown out.

God Bless
Bro. Dallas

 

Do you expect to get out of this life alive?

No, it is appointed unto man ONCE to die. Well what about eternal life?

We who believe in Jesus Christ must die so that we can pass from death into life everlasting. Those who don't die and then the judgment!

No I don't agree with your last statement! That is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The converse of which is keeping the baby in the bathwater all the time. It does not work either way!

You hold fast to that which is true!

 

Brother Skandelon,

YOU:I see your point. And I think that is a good answer. But what is it about the child that the Holy Spirit makes us "like"? Even if you give the Holy Spirit the "credit" for making us like a child that still doesn't answer the question of what was in a child that God wants us to be like. Make sense?

ME: Why I think God said we have to "become like a child" is exactly the same reason he says we have to be "born again" to enter the kingdom. We know both are impossible with man and can only be accomplished by God alone. Other analogies of our salvation are similar such as the comparison of us being resurrected, can man raise the dead ? We are also referred to as being new creatures, a new creation. Did Man play an active role in creation? God is the only creator. Likewise with the birth/child analogy, we had no choice in being born the first time so it is the 2nd time. I guess we will have to agree to disagree brother Skandelon.

God bless and have a good worship service tomorrow!

Brother Joe

 

Brother Yelsew,

YOU: Verse 14-18 is Paul giving warning to Timothy about FALSE TEACHERS (of which, you are one).

ME: Im sorry you have had to resort to name calling on this forum. You have done it on several other occasions to others as well. Your the only one on here that I have seen who resorts to such tactics. Nevertheless, they called our Lord names and he himself rightly said, "It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25)

God bless you .

Brother Joe

 

Brother Yelsew2,

YOU:Hipocrit!

ME: I did not omit words in the middle of the verse like the other poster did acidently. I put the entire verse. Here it is again. "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself" (2 Tim 2:13) Go back and read that post by me again if you desire.

Not putting the verse prior to that verse is not misquoting scripture! It isnt the same as excluding words in the middle of a verse.

Saved by grace,

Brother Joe

 

yelsew2,
I fear that your difficulty remains a 'veil' of flesh over your eyes. you have looked upon the mount, you have heard the terrible voice of God and you are bidding Moses to go between you and He.

According to scripture we know we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren.

This is speaking of our passing from previous spiritual death to current and eternal spiritual life. This is also supported with scriptures that promise the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the bearing witness by that Spirit with our spirit that we are the children of God.

That is our seal, our earnest that we shall be resurrected by the same Spirit of holiness through Christ was (Romans 1.4).

We are not awaiting a future time for God to declare we had no faith. If in this world only we had hope, we would be of all men most miserable (paraphrase).

May God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Brothers,

I am going out of town this week and doubt I will be able to post. Please keep me in your prayers. I have enjoyed discussing scriptures with everyone on here and believe everyone has something they can teach one another.

God bless,

Brother Joe

 

Hipocrit! You've called me everything but Christian! You've made every attempt to pigeon-hole me into some category or another, you call my beliefs names and that is exactly the same as calling me names! You do exactly what you've found fault with in others, that is is being hypocritical, that is why I called you a Hypocrite!

Do you really not understand what you did? You took a part of what Paul was telling Timothy out of its context and used it to say something different that Paul was saying! That sir is the miss use of scripture! That is what you accused Skandelon of and you turned right around and did it to me! Hypocritical!

This scripture kind of knocks the wind out of "once-saved-always-saved". Even Paul acknowledges that is it possible for us to disown the Christ...and he does not exempt "the elect"!

 

Brother Yelsew,

YOU:Hipocrit! You've called me everything but Christian! You've made every attempt to pigeon-hole me into some category or another, you call my beliefs names and that is exactly the same as calling me names! You do exactly what you've found fault with in others, that is is being hypocritical, that is why I called you a Hypocrite!

ME: I believe your saved and on your way to heaven. Im sorry if you feel I havent treated you kindly.

YOU: quote:
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2 Timothy 2:11-13. Here is a saying that you can rely on: If we have died with him, then we shall live with him. If we persevere, then we shall reign with him. If we disown him, then he will disown us. If we are faithless, he is faithful still, for he cannot disown his own self."

This scripture kind of knocks the wind out of "once-saved-always-saved". Even Paul acknowledges that is it possible for us to disown the Christ...and he does not exempt "the elect"!

ME: This scripture does not "knock the wind out of once saved always saved. I noticed your translation states, "if we disown him, then he will disown us." However, the KJV renders it, "if we deny him, he also will deny us." How can this knock the wind out of once saved always saved when the apostle Peter denied Jesus 3 times yet we assuredly know he is in heaven. The following passage knocks the wind out of the possibility of the elect not persevering until the end:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:28-39)

Brother Yelsew, verse 38 states "THINGS TO COME" CANNOT seperate me from the love of God. Wouldnt this include any future unfaithfulness on my part? Further, verse 30 says "NO CREATURE" will SEPERATE me from the love of God, wouldnt this include myself? If the answer to those two questions are yes, then it is proven it is impossible for a believer to lose his salvation. Christ is both the "author and FINISHER Of our faith." (hebrews 12:2) "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Phillipians 1:6), and finally "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me..."(john 6:37). When God saves he finishes the job.

Saved by grace,

Brother Joe

 

Excellent post Brother Joe

 

Because you seem to have difficulty with the dictionary...

There is nothing wrong with the translation that I use, it uses different words, but the meaning is the same as the KJV.

When one loses FAITH, it is not Jesus or God that moved away, it is man! All one needs do to see the truth is look at all the divorces. Divorce is nothing more than losing ones faith! If we can do that with those we can see, why is it not possible to do that with those we cannot see? In a divorce, less than 10 percent of divorces are the result of both parties wanting it. 90% of divorces are the result of one of the parties wants the divorce the other does not! One of the parties usually fights to keep the marriage, that is how it is with man and God. God does not want the divorce and short of completely enslaving us, God does not want us to lose faith. but many still do! You cannot deny that! There are many who have loved, married the church, only to fall away in spite of what the church does to keep it going. There are many who fall away from the Christ, despite the truth that Jesus never leaves us nor forsakes us.

 

You still aren't dealing with my question. Even if I were to concede that it is God who makes one "like a child" as you have clearly described that does not answer the question concerning the likeness of a child that sets children apart from adults. When Jesus placed a child in front of his disciples and said you must become like this child to enter the kingdom (I'm paraphasing so don't go postal). Jesus is clearly pointing to some characteristic that the child has that these men need within their lives. Once again, my question is, "What is that characteristic?"