Objections to the Teetotalism view on Alcohol

^i am pretty sure that Paul is talking about meat that has been sacraficed to idols in pagan temples there which is why he uses the terms clean and unclean. Remember early christians came out of true paganism where this actually happened and some younger believers would have been horrified at the link between the 2.

 

I would only take them to an Aa meeting if they needed it....thats if they were out of control. My wifes an acholoic and i just had a beer in front of her and she will tell you she could care less. She just bought some pumpkin muffins and they sit there in the kitchen. Guess what, she knows full well that i am a diabetic....but she also knows that if i am to survive then i have to reject those muffins. And she doesnt have to, she isnt a diabetic. Why should she suffer ....isnt her problem. So if you are a drunk, hey i will help you, i will drag you out of a bar, i will go to AA with you....but from there you are on your own, so grow up and face your problem....i dont got the problem.....and if you drink, your in denial and thats your problem.

 

Explain how there can fine or inferior grape juice? Choice and cheaper grape juice? Good and poor grape juice? Good and worse grape juice?

How does one "drink too much grape juice"?

 

It's not an issue of clean or unclean. It is a matter of a brothers conscience. That is the core issue. Not meat, not clean or unclean.

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That's fine. If no one is offended, not an issue. If she doesn't care, no problem. If it ever becomes an issue for her....if she says "honey, I need you to get all the alcohol out of the house. The temptation is too much". Are you going to tell her, " not my problem. You needed to grow up." ?

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Why the annoyance? I said I had heard this, and was not saying this was set in stone. But there are many reports of the benefits of a glass of red wine. I said a glass, not bottle, of red wine.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/in-depth/red-wine/art-20048281

Now, you can read in the link Dr's are precautious of telling anyone to start drinking. But it also said that it increased HDL levels. HDL is the lipoprotein that takes cholesterol from the arteries to the liver to be taken out of the circulatory system. This could help prevent heart disease and heart attacks, and probably strokes as well, seeing the plaque does not get built up in the system.


http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/8-health-benefits-of-drinking-wine


I am not doing anything that you should be suspicious about. I have not taken a drink in almost 10 years...unless you count Nyquil that contains 10% alcohol by volume.

 

Also, Bishops are to abstain from drinking Welch's Grape Juice and Deacons can only drink so much of it. Also, drink a little Welch's because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

 

Aged women are not to drink too much grape juice either. And if someone is KJVO like Jordan they're supposed to quit drinking water and only drink grape juice ("drink no longer water"...)

For health reasons I've had to give up both alcohol and coffee. It's only been 5 months, but it's all good. I hope I can make it to the 35 year club.

 

The wine Paul told Timothy to use for his stomach was the Greek word 'oinos'. Now, I do not know if that is fermented or not. The same Greek word was used for wine in John 2:9.


So, I do not know if it means fermented wine or not. But it appears that it could mean that. Why are Bishops to abstain while Deacons are allowed some? If it was grape juice, why would it matter? So I tend to believe 'oinos' is fermented wine.

 

Yes I concur, but when the pastor makes a rule that no member shall have a sip of alcohol that is what I refer to as legalism as he is forcing his convictions on others.

 

Grape juice is what Baptists will call it in John 2. Are you saying that in the 17th century most Churches used wine in communion?

 

What would be the harm of having a drink in the comfort and isolation of my own home?

 

Very strong arguments here. I plan to use some in a letter to the pastor (whom said he welcomed objections that he will address in his next message).

 

You never learn. I think I'll dub you whom6589

 

Yea that would never happen. BTW thats what she tells me with food...its your problem, deal with it.

 

Pink:

"...This was Christ’s first miracle, and in it He shows us that God is pleased to use human instrumentality in performing the wonders of His grace. The miracle consisted in the supplying of wine and, as previously pointed out, wine symbolizes joy in God. Learn then, that the Lord is pleased to employ human agents in bringing joy to ‘the hearts of men. And what was the element Christ used on this occasion in producing the wine? It was water. Now "water" is one of the symbols of the written Word (see Ephesians 5:26). And how may we His servants, today, bring the wine of joy unto human hearts? By ministering the Word (see Ephesians 5:26). And how may we His servants, today, "servants" Christ’s command to fill those six empty waterpots of stone with water, might have seemed meaningless, if not foolish; but their obedience made them fellow-workers in the miracle! And to the wise of this world, who put their trust in legislation, and social amelioration, it seems useless to go forth unto the wicked with nothing more in our hands than a Book written almost two thousand years ago. Nevertheless, it has pleased God "by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe"—foolish, that is, in the estimate of the worldly wise. Here then is blessed instruction for the servants of God today. Let us go forth with the Water of life, implicitly obeying the commands of our Lord, and He will use us to bring the wine of Divine joy to many a sad heart...."
http://pbministries.org/books/pink/John/john_06.htm

 

It is also your Wife's home. It would show your lack of respect for her opinion about drinking and would undermine her in your Stepson's eyes.

 

Most likely they did use wine in communion.

There are some Baptist churches that continue to use wine in their observance of the Lord's Supper today. For nearly 50 years, I was a member of two different Baptist churches located in two different continents who both ministered to Americans. They use "intoxicating wine" in their communion observances.

Prior to my receiving Christ as my personal Savior in 1966, I'd never heard of this happening--of course, as a lost person before I trusted Christ as my Savior, I never really cared that much about anything having to do with the Bible. The pastor of the first church of which I was a member produced many Baptist church newspapers that addressed the wine vs. grape juice issue.

The "grape juice side" never produced any NT passages that specifically stated that the contents of the cup that Jesus and His disciples used during their Last Supper--which forms the basis of the NT communion services [See 1 Cor. 11:20,23-29.]. Instead they used extra-biblical arguments taken primarily from the temperance movement, which didn't really take hold in the US until the last quarter of the 19th century. I'm not saying that the temperance movement in the US was anti-scriptural, but that per se shouldn't form the basis of a practice by Jews that extended at least as far back as c. 3,500 BC where one reads in Genesis 9 that after the flood Noah became drunk from the grapes he produced. Most orthodox Jews today still use intoxicating wine as a beverage both in regular social contexts as well as in their religious rites.

Most "grape-juice only" [GJO?] advocates probably have never taken much time to examine the every-day practices of the biblical era. For example, the OT prophet to Judah Zephaniah [c. 640 BC] prior to Judah's being invaded by Babylon, in 1:12 ff, he goes to great lengths to warn Judah that if they repent of their excessive drunkeness, God just might delay the Babylonians from destroying their nation.

The only way I know of how to get drunk from the product of their vineyards [1:13] is to consume intoxicating wine. Throughout the Bible there are warnings--not of merely consuming wine, but consuming it to excess.

I'm not advocating that a Christian should drink wine because of the negative image it presents to most Americans today. OTOH, drinking wine as an after meals beverage is a relatively common practice within the ranks of Christians outside the US.

In my previous posts in this thread, I cited several examples of the use of oinos in the NT where our English Bibles translate that word to mean wine. This very same usage is commonly found even in the LXX as well. While a word study of biblical Hebrew and Greek, will not always by itself solve every theological issue, a good working knowledge of these biblical languages can provide much insight into what the HS directed the men who were the human authors of God's Word. Thankfully in the past few decades there are lexical aids that are keyed to Strong's numbering system that make it a lot easier for laymen (as me!) to pursue some basic word studies.

Hopefully this will help you somewhat in your presentation.

 

That it would not be honoring the promise you made your wife. You had said on 7/18/2015:
"I do not buy or drink in my house for the sake of my wife's convictions."


[Although I don't how you could buy alcohol in your house.]