I happen to be one who used to cite Alexander Hislop, fairly frequently.
However, I did some research to find that it appeared to me that, too often, there was a lot of speculation and conjecture mixed in among the facts, and "the whole ball of wax" was being summarily arrived at in a questionable manner.
FTR, I nearly left my own home church, based on something he had written in Two Babylons that I fortunately, just in time, found out was baseless.
'Nuff said, that now I am extremely leery of citing Alexander Hislop, without further research. I would simply suggest anyone would do well to do a bit more research into things he has stated, before using him as an authority, as well.
Here is another I used to cite, Brother Ralph Woodrow, who had based a lot of his stuff on Hislop. You (and others) might be interested in reading what he has now said, since he is still around to defend himself.
http://www.ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-connection.html
http://www.ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-mystery.html
Ed
Oh Pagan Tree
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by antiaging, Dec 11, 2008.
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Waite! I remember now, that was me at 4am still sleep walking trying to put bicycles together. I am the one that ate the cookies and drank the milk. Please don't tell the kids (now 20 and 25). They would be so devastated. :laugh:
Again, I am into this "pagan" game just as you are. I have spoken up for antiaging's convictions and the mockery that was directed at him. I must say though, his poem fueled the fire. Yet it does not offend me because I know that I am not "pagan". However the mockery of someone's convictions does.
Celebrating Christ's birth was never a mandated observance of the Church. We were told by Christ to remember His death not His birth. This Holiday has come by the traditions of men not by the oracles of God. This is the crux of his conviction.
The fact that we celebrate His birth on the 25th of this month by traditions rather than by scripture is not a bad thing in and of itself. I honestly believe this tradition has a connotation of victory about it.
Victory in that faith in Christ has overcome the paganism of our Gentile fathers. The traditions of trees, logs, stockings and St Nick are symbols of the ancient past that now bow to the God of Heaven that cared enough to send His Son to a world that knew Him not. John 3:16 rules, not the writings of some ancient Babylonian text.
And Tim,
As DHK already posted,
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Same for the Jeremiah 10 verses.
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NASB: For the customs of the peoples are (A)delusion;
Because (B)it is wood cut from the forest,
The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.
ESV: for the customs of the peoples are vanity.[a](B) A tree from the forest is cut down
and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman.
It does not take a craftsman to cut down a tree. The word in the KJV that is translated "workman" doesn't give it the sense of the expertness of the worker, but the Hebrew word is "charash" which means a skilled person. The tree cut down from the forest would not be a "work" because what is cutting a tree? It's just something that the children could have done. Yet we see that the tree was the work of a skilled worker, cut with an axe. That certainly is more than just cutting an evergreen from the forest.
Read Isaiah 44:9-28 to read more about the same subject. -
What if you don't cut it? What if you buy one with the roots still attached, pot it, and plant it in the Spring?
I did that last year, but sadly, the tree didn't make it. Let's just say I don't have a green thumb. -
For some money is an idol, for some food is an idol, should we all throw these out also just becasue some have made them an idol?
Don't you think it depends on the intent of the heart?
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
Unus
duo
Tres
Quatuor
Quinquae
Sex
Septem
Octo
Novem
Decem
The month of July is named in honor of Julius Caesar. -
If in any case anyone has taken my posts as judgmental opinions on the idolatry of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ then I humbly seek your forgiveness. However, For speaking against mockery of one that has a biblical basis for conviction I do not repent.
Mel -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
...except that it doesn't have any Biblical basis - as has been demonstrated.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
So who's on what side? All I know is that if there are personal convictions about not making an idol to a Christmas tree that is a legitamate consern. However, to be consistent you then should be convicted about Celebrating the birth of the Lord on Winter's solstice (and his date of birth has been determined not to actually be on December 25th). Or Using the Roman Calander which venerates several Gods including the roman emperor. In fact if you look at all the pagan influences in our society you may be distraught. -
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Asd I said, this is if I remember correctly, although anyone may feel free to correct my memory, which is now nothing like as good as it was 45 years ago, I will freely admit.
Incidentally, all this has little to do with any supposed "pagan tree" that I can see. ;)
Ed -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
New Year's Day being 1st January is an even more recent innovation, being that of the Gregorian Calendar, which replaced the Julian in Britain in 1752 (and as late as 1918 in Russia). New Years Day under the Julian Calendar was March 25th; hence, for example, March 24th 1700 was followed by March 25th 1701. It also explains why in some history books you will see someone referred to as having been born or died in '1652/3' ; rather than meaning that historians aren't sure in which year the individual died, it simply means that s/he died between January 1st and March 24th in the year in question. For example, King William III died on March 8th 1702, according to the Gregorian reckoning*, but in older history books you can come across 'March 8th 1701/2' or even 'March 8th 1701'.
*Only according to the reckoning of years; according to the reckoning of days, it would have been March 20th under the Gregorian Calendar, since it was at that point some 12 days ahead of the Julian. That's also why in Russia the 'February Revolution' and 'October Revolution' of 1917 actually occurred in March and November respectively under the Gregorian reckoning. Now, please may I go and get a life?! -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
You call these, 'jokes'?
No wonder my brother says we Ebersoehns have no sense of humour. maybe also because of the German blood - they are very serious about Christmas.
I think we must just keep this away from the Scriptures. They are a bad mix, bitter like gall and venomous like a rattle snake; I mean, the potion.
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