Ours is plastic and 9'...we are REAL fake pagans! We even have small plastic ones throughout our home! Does this mean I am the most righteous one in this thread? :)
Oh Pagan Tree
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by antiaging, Dec 11, 2008.
Page 5 of 12
-
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
I begin to think I do have a sense of humour. -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
This topic makes me think of king Hezekaiah who destroyed the golden serpent Moses made because the people worshipped it.
Come on, Christians, we are soldiers of Christ. Christ-mass trees and many other things taken for granted and harmless deep down with adults are idolatry we were brought up with and wouldn't part with for the life of us. I mean, am I to storm into my children's houses and knock down those todler's and youngsters' joy? - innocent joy! Or live in disharmony with my wife for ever after because I took off her little coloured lights from the doorway, or refused to help her put them up?
May Christ be merciful upon me, is all I can say, upon me this sinner I am!
I tell you something, my wife is no idolator! -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
I am laughing at myself - so i really must have a sense of humour! -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
Of the Christians I have associated with all my life, I have not seen one taking offence at a christmass tree or resign their faith because of it.
No wait, I once saw one who by the goodwill of another church worshipped in their church building, remove the careful christmass preparations before they would proceed with their own service.
That is what one calls legalism. see the new thread. i have great sorrow on behalf of such people. -
-
You are right, though, Mel. If someone does seriously believe far-fetched nonsense, perhaps we should respond in love as that person could have a serious mental issue.
But. . .Ahem. . .I'm still trying not to laugh about the spies in the TV. . . -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
Tsk, tsk... tsk...
Watch out, you will be called to task for making fun of someone's convictions.. although they are extrabiblical.... -
A man may preach against adultery because it is wrong.
Another may say his preaching against adultery is wrong and need not to be listened to because he believes that TV is sin, or has some other odd belief. Now what does one have to do with the other. Tearing down the character of the poster or his other beliefs has nothing to do with the beliefs that he is posting (i.e., adultery is sin). That is what is happening here. It is not right, and it, in and of itself, is sin.
I say this to all who are involved. -
My point was that maybe we shouldn't poke fun at a weaker brother or sister, even though some of the opinions posted didn't make sense.
I will now bow out of this thread, as I feel I am being repremanded for something that I did not cause. -
Your comments are most welcome. DHK was speaking of another poster and that of mine when I mentioned the other threads. He is right in that I did engage in cross posting. For that I confess. However I, like you, feel that it is time to bow out as well. :wavey: -
My intent was to be a little light-hearted, not mock. I must come from a very different circle because we often joke light-heartedly about things----such as why a preacher should always wear a belt AND suspenders at the same time...
Eccl 4:9] Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
[Eccl 4:10] For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up. -
It has pagan roots from baal worship.
Baal worship is cited throughout the old testament as a false religion that led to both the downfall of the nations that God destroyed to give their land to Israel and later to the downfall of Israel itself when they worshipped baalim and ashteroth. [im is Hebrew masculine plural; oth is feminine plural. refering to the different names of the false gods, that the sun god baal took on and the different names that the queen of heaven took on in the different forms of baal worship in the different lands.
Astarte, Diana, Venus, Ishtar,--ashteroth
baal, baal berith, Zues, Chemosh, Milchom, Ra, Jupiter, --baalim
Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deuteronomy 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
So, celebrating the birth of Christ, when God became a man, to redeem us, should have nothing to do with a pagan tradition of hanging things on trees and giving gifts, from babylonian baal worship.
12:31---thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God.---
Christmas trees are not serving God in any way in celebrating His birth.
It is a pagan tradition that originally started in the pagan baal worship in babylon which is an abominable religion in God's sight, as shown from the Old testament repeatedly.
If you think it is sinful then don't do it.
If you really don't consider it sinful then to you it is not a sin, if the bible does not call it a sin.
If you do consider it sinful, then to you it would be a sin, according to what it says in Paul's epistles about eating meat or things sacrificed to idols.
However, I think people that are christians should know the truth of where this originally comes from and decide for themselves if they want to have Christmas trees.
I think it is safe to say that it does not please God, although not really a sin if you don't consider it a sin.
As for me, I don't want anything to do with baal worship, in any form, and not in the form it is in now, disguised to look like something else.
See The Two babylons by Hislop.
The woman in Revelation 17, has a name mystery babylon...
And the woman is called that city that reigneth over the kings of the earth.
reigneth is present tense to the time of the writing.
Rome is the city that reigned over the kings of the Earth when John wrote that.
He is spiritually calling Rome by the name babylon, just like he spiritually called Jerusalem, where our Lord was crucified, Sodom and Egypt. -
-
In Ireland, candles were placed in windows to keep the evil ones away. Do we eliminate the use of candles in this society?
As I understand it, the original tree was an oak tree. The original Christmas tree was an ash tree. Do we abolish all trees because some organization utilized a tree for some alien purpose?
Not me. I love all trees. Trees clean the air we breathe. I don't have a pagan thought in my head when I see a tree. I thank God that we still have trees.
I have never had a tree in the house for Christmas, but I admire those who do.
As the writer of old said, "God bless us everyone......" (Dickens)
Cheers,
Jim -
It is against my better judgment that I jump head first into this awkward discussion. I have read through this thread and seen some amazing things. Sadly I never cease to be amazed at what some people believe.
I must warn ahead of time, this is going to be one of the strongest posts I have ever posted. So if you don't like hard talk, and tough truths, don't read this reply. You have been warned. :laugh:
A Christmas tree is not pagan, nor is it Christian, it is neutral. The tree talked about in Jeremiah 10:1-5 has no historical or Biblical connection to the modern practice of setting up Christmas trees. Therefore it is not correct to use that passage to argue against Christmas trees. That passage is dealing with idols that are worshipped. The Lord is telling his people not to worry about those idols because they can do nothing. There is only one God and He, and He alone, is God (Jer 10:6ff). Using that passage to argue against Christmas trees is a very good example of a historical, exegetical fallacy. People who use that passage have not considered the context of the verse or the historical situation that brought about the writing of that verse.
The Bible says that "one person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God" (Rom 14:5-6). We are not to judge someone for celebrating or not celebrating a day (holiday). Scripture is very clear on that matter. Paul said, "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand" (Rom 14:4). In another place Paul said that we should not allow anyone "to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" (Col 2:16). These are personal matters and have no sinful implications. A person who celebrates Christmas by thanking the Lord for His mercy, grace, and work, is doing nothing wrong. A person who, like the early American Puritans, does not celebrate Christmas because he/she believes that it would not be in agreement with their understanding is doing no wrong. A person who puts up a Christmas tree and decorates it to celebrate Christ's coming is doing nothing wrong. In the same way, a person who does not is doing nothing wrong. Scripture does not command us to celebrate Christ's birth, but there is nothing in Scripture that tells us not to. In some ways I believe the issue of Christmas and Christmas trees is simular to the situation with meat that Paul talks about in Romans 14:13-23 (etc).
Now, with that out of the way, I want to deal with some of the unhistorical and unBiblical remarks made by the poster antiaging.
As for "baal worship", please show me the historical connection between Christmas trees and the false deity baal mentioned in the Old Testament. I know you can't since there is not a connection (direct or otherwise). Most likely you are simply parrotting something someone told you.
Since God gave the greatest gift, I don't see anything with the practice of giving gifts to loved ones to celebrate that greatest of gifts.
-
I started reading the thread, then I saw who posted the OP. No need to read any further. I also don't want to say too much in case the Catholics are now watching me through my computer monitor.
Page 5 of 12