Dkh,
I challenge you to get a Oneness Pentecostal and a Jehovah Witness in the same room. The fireworks will fly.
Do this and you will never think that Jehovah Witness and Oneness are alike.
Get a muslin and a Oneness while you are at it.
"No matter what you say" the similarity is not close.
Oneness Theology versus Trinity
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Timotheos, May 8, 2005.
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Whoever wills to be in a state of salvation, before all things it is necessary that he hold the universal faith,...the universal faith is that we worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance.(The Athanasian Creed) -
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That's correct atestring! You will never hear a person of the UPC deny the "Deity of Christ."
As a matter of fact, they are probably the strongest believers of Jesus being God, in the flesh, than any group that I've ever heard of personally.
Col 2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Can't get any closer than that... ;)
JESUS IS GOD! ...and that's a fact.
MEE </font>[/QUOTE]"In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was a god." (New World Translation)
The Jehovah Witnesses believe (in a sense) in the deity of Christ. After all they do believe that he was a god. He was divine. They do say that he was "a god." They have a greater God and a lesser God.
Their perception of God is different than the Bible's teaching of who God is.
The same is true of Oneness and UPC. The denial of the Trinity is in fact the denial of the deity of Christ no matter what you say. You have redefined who God is, just as the J.W.'s have. You can claim him as deity, just as the Muslim's claim Allah as deity, but the God of the Oneness is as different from the Bible as is Allah. They are totally different. Both Muslim and Oneness claim their gods to be divine or deity; both serve gods that are not defined within the boundaries of the Bible.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]This is like comparing apples and oranges. Jehovah Witnesses and Muslims doctrines are a poor comparison to the UPC. Only your opinion and a poor one at that. Just more deception of facts.
The God of the Oneness is the one who died on the cross for the sins of humanity. His name is Jesus Christ! How much plainer can one get DHK?
BTW, I'm not in the least bit impressed by you using a small 'g' to make your opinion anymore effective. :rolleyes:
MEE -
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A few points:
1. Modalism was declared a heresy and excommunicated from the early church.
2. Contrary to popular belief, the pre-nicene fathers had a rather clear understanding of the trinity. Tertullian and Gregory the Great even used the term "trinity" in the 200's.
3. Everyone that I've ever met who denied the trininty also taught some other heresy surrounding salvation. No wonder, for if you get God wrong, the issues will spill into other things also.
4. This has nothing to do with whether they are nice people, or whether they live moral lives, or how often they talk about Jesus. Many heretics are nice people and live moral lives from a human standpoint.
5. Make no mistake: when you're dealing with the nature of God and Christ, this is not a trivial matter. -
You serve another God, of whom you say is deity but is not, because he is not defined as God by the Bible, just as Allah is not defined as God by the Bible. Anyone can use, and does use the word god. That doesn't mean the person they refer to as god is the God of the Bible. You may as well be worshipping Baal. You are not worshiping Christ as deity. Your belief was laid to rest as heresy in the third century. Why bring it up now as a valid theology? It is not. And thus your definition of God is not. It is heresy.
DHK -
The reason I don't see your point is that you don't have one. You have an opinion of which I don't agree. That's my right!
You don't believe me when I say that Jesus Christ is the God of the Bible. He died for humanity. There isn't a person, on this forum, that doesn't agree with that DHK. Why do you say I'm wrong?
My belief in "One God" wasn't laid to rest in the third century. The RCC tried and succeeded to many, but not to His Church. There is only "One God," not three!
You may have left the Catholic Church, but you failed to leave some of their doctrine behind.
Look it up!...since I can't post links on this BB.
Believe what you want, just don't say that the Oneness saints believe in some strange god! OK? ;)
One God---> three manifestations!
1Ti 3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(KJV)
MEE -
Has been heresy since the Apostolic Age and earlier. Was officially declared heresy in the 3rd century.
Still remains heresy today.
There is nothing new is your cult of heretical teaching that there are three manifestations of the same God, and the denial of the trinity, which is essensce is a denial of the deity of Christ. And that is a Christ that you do not know, for you do not know the God of the Bible--the triune Godhead.
DHK -
Has been heresy since the Apostolic Age and earlier. Was officially declared heresy in the 3rd century.
Still remains heresy today.
There is nothing new is your cult of heretical teaching that there are three manifestations of the same God, and the denial of the trinity, which is essensce is a denial of the deity of Christ. And that is a Christ that you do not know, for you do not know the God of the Bible--the triune Godhead.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]It's not heresy! It's Bible. I refuse to believe what the RCC did to God's word...IN THE THIRD CENTURY. I don't belong to a cult and the Bible does teach that God was manifest in the flesh.
Your right, I don't know of a three person god. I'm still waiting for you to explain it to me.
One God---> three manifestations! (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost)
1Ti 3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(KJV)
MEE -
I suppose that because you fail to understand the physics governing how electricity works, that that would be "heresy" too, and you would make up some other "scientific religous definition for electricity. Do you deny everything that you don't understand. Do you understand everything about vehicles even though you know they work.
Jesus told Nicodemus that he didn't understand the wind--where it came from and where it went, and yet he called himself a teacher. He said he ought to know of these things (referring to the New Birth) So should you. But you don't.
For more information on the trinity check here:
Trinity -
dkh,
i think your friend would call your argument that compares Oneness to Jehovah Witness a strawman argument -
I don't know what friend you refer to atestring.
But there are not as many born again Christians in America as one would tend to think. However there are probably more than 90% of Americans that believe in God. Which god do they believe in? If God is not defined by the Bible then they believe in the wrong God, or their belief is misplaced. Either way it is wrong.
The Pharisees thought they believed in God. Their God, they said was the God of Abraham. Jesus told them otherwise, however. Here is what Jesus said:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
The God of Abraham? No! Their god was the devil himself. So is yours if you don't believe in the trinty; if you are not born again by the Spirit of God; if you are not saved; if you believe that baptism saves; if you believe in a false gospel, and not the gospel of the Bible.
You are in the same situation of the Pharisees who thought they believed in God, but didn't. They believed in a different god, whom they addressed as God.
DHK -
Do you believe that if a person is baptized in Jesus Name that they are of the Devil. The book of Acts says mentions that people were baptized in the Name of Jesus.
Were they of the Devil? -
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"I baptize you in the name of Jesus, buried with him in the likeness of his death, and rising again in the likeness of his resurrection."
"I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, buried with him in the likeness of his death, and rising again in likeness of his resurrection."
--or some variation of the above.
If the name of Jesus refers to the "Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit," the triune Godhead, then I don't have a problem with it. If it heretically refers to a manifestation of God, and not the trinity, then I have a big problem with it.
DHK -
Of course we all know that it was changed by the RCC to using the titles Father, Son, and Holy Ghost....which I might add, are not His name.
The name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is Jesus.
Acts 4:12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
MEE -
And no "we don't all know"
I don't know. I believe what you said is false.
What is it. Oneness revisionsim?
Or don't you read your Bible?
Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
DHK -
And no "we don't all know"
I don't know. I believe what you said is false.
What is it. Oneness revisionsim?
Or don't you read your Bible?
Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
DHK
Proof? OK..go to google.com and type in Nicene Council 325 AD Water Baptism. Or, try your Brittanica Encyclopedia, The New International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, or The World Book Encyclopedia.
Or better yet, try finding water baptism using the titles F,S,and HG in the Bible.
DHK, it just ain't there!
MEE -
So who shall I believe? God's Word. or you?
I think I'll stay with God's Word.
DHK
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