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Ordained Women
- Thread starter SaggyWoman
- Start date
Psalm 44:4 is the only place in the Bible that I see God "ordaining", and it pertains to salvation, not to an office in the Church, or priesthood in the OT.El_Guero said:
Psa 44:4 You are my King, O God; ordain salvation for Jacob!
Last edited by a moderator:
SaggyWoman
Active Member
webdog said:
Isn't that about right!
Marcia
Active Member
I know the Lord ordains, but I assumed for the purposes of the question that it was asking about formal ordination by a church or religious body.
I also assumed it meant ordaining a woman to a pastoral position.
I also made a distinction between ordination and commissioning.
So I voted no.
I also assumed it meant ordaining a woman to a pastoral position.
I also made a distinction between ordination and commissioning.
So I voted no.
When we are born again we are all ordained by God to do his work. As for a women ever being ordained for a position in the church, I vote NO. I believe a man is the head of the house and the church is the house of God so why would a woman be the leader of His house. I am not saying a woman cant have a position but not for one in need of being ordained by man.
SaggyWoman said:
No clear, unmistakable Scriptural precedence.
Ordination was not advocated by Spurgeon. It has become virtually worthless among those in ministry. It is the church people who think it to be worth something and want it of their pastors. If one wants to get ordained he can find a pastor somewhere who will do it. Some pastors want statistics ans they strive to get them.
What do you believe is the distinction between ordination and commissioning?Marcia said:
I agree with those who see that the Bible specifically forbids a woman from serving as a bishop or elder. Our admonition against women serving as deaconesses lacks strong biblical foundation but I understand why we so admonish.
Aside from these examples, there is neither a biblical command nor admonition concerning the ordination of members in good standing to whatever service the church decides. The result is a bunch of opinions sans biblical mandate.
Aside from these examples, there is neither a biblical command nor admonition concerning the ordination of members in good standing to whatever service the church decides. The result is a bunch of opinions sans biblical mandate.
The reason I shifted the question slightly is that, in both a practical and theological sense, Baptists do not have a strong theology of ordination. Therefore, if we are going to discuss whether women should be ordained, we need to have a clear understand of what "ordination" actually means for those who respond.Speedpass said:
As for me, I see ordination as essentially the same sort of thing as what we do when we commission missionaries -- we are setting them aside for a certain task, recognizing and affirming that God has called them into that specific ministry.
As a Baptist who rejects the concept of successionism and a division between "clergy" and "laity" (all believers are ministers and ambassadors of Christ, and the fact that someone is "ordained" does not necessarily make them God's mouthpiece or more of an instrument of God), I don't see the issue with the ordination of women -- even if a person is convinced that a woman should not serve as pastor, deacon or have "authority" over men.
I'm openminded on the issue and fishing for answers here. I'm willing to be persuaded regarding ordination if someone is willing to discuss why they seem to be willing to commission women to serve as missionaries on foreign soil, but have a fit if they are ordained as a deacon to serve (not exercise "authority") in a local church.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
Baptist Believer said:
I don't understand this statement. I've served on two Pastoral Search committees and we always looked closely at whether a candidate was ordained and by what denomination. Are you saying that this would be unimportant to you?
Denominational affiliation would be important to me, but ordination is not important. In many Baptist circles, the questioning of a candidate for ordination takes place immediately before the ceremony... and I've never heard of a single person failing to "pass."StraightAndNarrow said:
I would be more concerned about their theology, philosophy of ministry, character, spiritual development, and their track record of ministry than whether or not they had an ordination certificate.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
Baptist Believer said:
I agree that those are important, but would you call a pastor who hasn't been ordained? We wouldn't.
This is what the Bible says. Draw your own conclusions.
1Ch 9:22
All these which were chosen to be porters in the gates were two hundred and twelve. These were reckoned by their genealogy in their villages, whom David and Samuel the seer did ordain in their set office.
1Ch 17:9
Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
Isa 26:12
LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
1Co 7:17
But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
Tit 1:5
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee
1Ch 9:22
All these which were chosen to be porters in the gates were two hundred and twelve. These were reckoned by their genealogy in their villages, whom David and Samuel the seer did ordain in their set office.
1Ch 17:9
Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
Isa 26:12
LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
1Co 7:17
But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
Tit 1:5
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee
Sure.StraightAndNarrow said:
That's certainly your privilege. But I'm interested to know why it is essential to you and your congregation. Perhaps that should be the topic of another thread...
Answering also in context of your poll (women preachers-heading up church). What I'm about to say here (a little later), I have never put in writing, and if cursing were allowed on this board, we would see the full gambit.SaggyWoman said:
I believe women can be sanctioned by a church for specific duties outside of the church service, such as Sunday school teachers to women and children, and men; Also as Chaplin's, missionaries, etc. In other words, they are not to "run the show", for they are to be under the authority of man. I personally do not believe a woman should be on a nominating committee, or handle the finances in a church for reasons given below. Assist yes, but not one to hold authority with the last say.
I believe the purpose of Paul's stance is as he states, which is in church dissension must be avoided, and any time a man is fully put under the authority of a woman, that house will come down, or is not productive for the glory of God. Whether we like it or not this has to go back to Adam and the woman. The woman was deceived apart from Adam. Woman gave up her right of equality, or that of being coheir with right on her own.
We have to notice the essentials given in the beginning, viz. "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them", Genesis 1:17. We see in Genesis 5:2 an interesting proclamation by God, "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." So ladies, you were (and are) really as we after all. This is the reason the Bible is so biased in favor of the male gender of tone and presentation, for it is spiritual, God making distinction only in our bodily makeup to carry out our functions as He intended on earth.
Here in the middle of this is that a little later remark, that really covers two subjects, but I'll only address one, and I believe you can see the other. I hope no one will take this as "smugness or chauvinism", as I believe this is what the Bible is showing us. Even though He calls us Adam He made us differently so that we two Adams (male and female) were made to come together, face to face in a perfect fit thus becoming one person (Adam), and this act allows God to call this marriage, the two becoming one. This is the only way marriage can be accomplished, and it is by Adam, the male Adam, and the female Adam, which is called woman by God. Notice God never once called the woman Eve. It is left up to Adam, the male Adam to name his generic named female woman Eve.
He is head, and one time listening to Waylon Jennings sing "Silent Partners" I was astounded as to the accuracy found describing the man and the woman, "She is the adjective, He is the verb". God is the Word, and the verb is the only thing that can make a statement about the subject.
The man has been made the verb, and the woman has made herself the adjective, for she cannot stand alone. But WOW, does she ever give color, and is able to modify. Could this be the answer? A "modifier" should not be made the "head" of an earthly church? Help, or helpmate - YES.
Mary Diana Lynn Harper
New Member
ordaining women
I am a woman, one who believes in Jesus and the Father with all my heart. I have learned the Bible and love the Word. I know what i know and am tought by God what He wants me to know. I believe with all my heart if God calls me to teach His Word or preach His Word, no matter what anyone says, I will teach His Word, weather in a church or at my home. When God calls you, He ordains you not man or church, but God. That peace of paper you put so much faith in is just that a peace of paper. :godisgood:
I am a woman, one who believes in Jesus and the Father with all my heart. I have learned the Bible and love the Word. I know what i know and am tought by God what He wants me to know. I believe with all my heart if God calls me to teach His Word or preach His Word, no matter what anyone says, I will teach His Word, weather in a church or at my home. When God calls you, He ordains you not man or church, but God. That peace of paper you put so much faith in is just that a peace of paper. :godisgood: