Ordained Women

[SaggyWoman]

I am not speaking about the realm of senior pastors.

Should women, for other staff positions and chaplaincy, be ordained?

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

I don't see the need for ordination for, say, a music position in a church. It is possible to be "set apart" without being ordained.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Should women, for other staff positions and chaplaincy, be ordained?

For chaplaincy, I think they should have an ordination certificate because hospitals, companies and the military expect ordination for those engaged in full-time vocational ministry(because of the influence of non-Baptist denominations).

Otherwise, I'm not a big fan of Baptists practicing ordination, the way we normally do it, for men or women.

Biblically, those who were ordained we set apart by the local church to do ministry. The ordination service consisted of the church laying their hands on the minister and confirming their calling to that task, similar to the commissioning services we do for missionaries. There were no ordination papers or alleged power to turn the elements of Communion into the literal body and blood of Christ. Furthermore, I don't see any evidence that a person's ordination carried with it any authority or status outside of the local church. For instance, a deacon (servant) for one church is not automatically considered a deacon at another church.

Therefore, I think the local church should ordain (set apart) anyone they want to set apart. And other churches shouldn't worry about it. A person ordaining in my congregation has no authority over or responsibility to yours.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I don't see the need for ordination for, say, a music position in a church. It is possible to be "set apart" without being ordained.

I don't think there is a biblical difference between being "set apart" and ordination.

 

[webdog]

I think it's sad that as Baptists, there are those who feel a woman can be ordained. As of now the vote is split :tear:

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

I don't think there is a biblical difference between being "set apart" and ordination.

Sure there is. How many of the Old Testament saints went through an ordination service? Yet God set them apart to do His works. That was my only point. Ordination is a recognition by others that the Lord has already set you apart. Nothing magical happened to me in November of 1996 when I was ordained. That "magical" something happened long before that. But my church recognized it and responded in Nov. 1996.

So why would that be different for a woman whom God sets apart?

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Biblically, those who were ordained we set apart by the local church to do ministry. The ordination service consisted of the church laying their hands on the minister and confirming their calling to that task, similar to the commissioning services we do for missionaries.

Thankfully, this is how my church ordained my father and I.

There were no ordination papers or alleged power to turn the elements of Communion into the literal body and blood of Christ.

While I have my papers (makes me sound like an English bulldog :laugh: ) I don't know anything about the literal body and blood thing. Must have missed that.

Furthermore, I don't see any evidence that a person's ordination carried with it any authority or status outside of the local church. For instance, a deacon (servant) for one church is not automatically considered a deacon at another church.

I can lawfully marry a couple. That can happen outside the church (although I prefer it not to). And since I'm not a deacon, another church will recognize my ordination as a transferable thing. But that doesn't matter much to me. Regardless, I will serve God.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I think it's sad that as Baptists, there are those who feel a woman can be ordained. As of now the vote is split :tear:

What does ordination mean to you? Why would a woman being "set apart" by a local congregation distress you? Do you also have concerns about women being commissioned to work on the mission field?

 

[Baptist Believer]

I don't know anything about the literal body and blood thing. Must have missed that.

That's part of being an ordained Roman Catholic priest. (That's also where modern Baptists have gotten their ideas about ordination.) There are many Baptists who believe that you must be ordained to serve Communion, or it is somehow not valid!

I can lawfully marry a couple. That can happen outside the church (although I prefer it not to).

In Texas (and in most other states), you don't have to be ordained to marry and bury people. Any licensed minister can do it.

And since I'm not a deacon, another church will recognize my ordination as a transferable thing.

And why should another church care if you have a piece of paper? There have been many great Baptist preachers who have never been ordained. I'm speaking off the top of my head here, but I don't think that George W. Truett (legendary pastor of First Baptist Dallas) or Charles Haddon Spurgeon were ordained.

EDIT: I'm wrong about Truett, but I did accurately remember that there was an issue there.

Here's an interesting article on the subject: http://www.abpnews.com/888.article.print

 

[El_Guero]

The title of your thread sounds different than your OP . . .

I am not speaking about the realm of senior pastors.

Should women, for other staff positions and chaplaincy, be ordained?

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

And why should another church care if you have a piece of paper? There have been many great Baptist preachers who have never been ordained.

You're missing my point, BB. I just said it DOESN'T matter to me. I will serve God even if my ordination certificate burns in a fire. It is not the paper, nor the church even, that has ordained me. It is God. And thank you for reminding me about the license. I did know that, and misspoke.

 

[Baptist Believer]

You're missing my point, BB. I just said it DOESN'T matter to me.

I understand.

I will serve God even if my ordination certificate burns in a fire. It is not the paper, nor the church even, that has ordained me. It is God.

You are correct.

And thank you for reminding me about the license. I did know that, and misspoke.

It is easy to forget the way some folks talk about ordination.

For what it is worth, I'm licensed but not ordained. I've never pursued ordination because God has called me and that's enough for me. Two different churches have offered ordination, but I politely declined in both instances. The first was because the church wanted to do it to get the "stain" of the previous pastor off of me (because he signed my license, although the church was the one who recognized my calling). They wanted to do it for what seemed to be the wrong motive. The second church, where I was called as pastor, wanted to do it because they were under the impression that Communion and/or baptisms that I performed might not be legitimate if there were not an ordained person to do it. They did not have any "ordained" persons in the congregation anymore, so they had stopped celebrating communion before I arrived because they thought it would not be legitimate! For me to submit to ordination persons from outside of the congregation would only feed their mistaken theology and enforce a minority view that they were not a legitimate church anymore because there was no "ordained" line of succession back to the apostles (a form of Landmarkism).

 

[webdog]

What does ordination mean to you? Why would a woman being "set apart" by a local congregation distress you? Do you also have concerns about women being commissioned to work on the mission field?

I believe Joshua gave an excellent example of the difference between being "set apart" and ordained. God doesn't ordain, God "sets apart". Man doesn't "set apart", man ordains.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I believe Joshua gave an excellent example of the difference between being "set apart" and ordained. God doesn't ordain, God "sets apart". Man doesn't "set apart", man ordains.

Okay, but you didn't really answer my questions...

Do you think God sets women apart to do ministry?

 

[webdog]

Okay, but you didn't really answer my questions...

Do you think God sets women apart to do ministry?

Absolutely. Pastor a church? No. Be an Elder? No. Deacon? No.

 

[bapmom]

ok, someone said they are licensed but not ordained...wouldnt it be more valuable to have it the other way around?

Is licensing an acknowledgement by the state/government? I mean, wouldnt the minister want to be acknowledged by his church before being acknowledged by the government?
Or am I not understanding the whole point of licensing?

 

[tinytim]

Bapmom,

In WV you are licensed by the church.
Take me for instance... I was licensed 1 yr by the church before seeking my ordination. It was in the church constitution like that.

In order to legally perform a marriage the minister either

1) has to be ordained
2) be licensed by the church, and also bonded.

Both license and ordaination is by the church.

I think of it this way... license is the training ground to be ordained.

 

[bapmom]

oh thank you for the explanation, tinytim.

I just assumed "license' meant government...but that's why I asked!

:flower:

 

[tinytim]

oh thank you for the explanation, tinytim.

I just assumed "license' meant government...but that's why I asked!

:flower:

Sorta like a drivers license?

That makes me think....
I know some preachers should have had a training permit before being allowed in the drivers seat.... er, I mean pulpit....

:laugh:

Actually, I thank God for the men of God that trained me.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I just assumed "license' meant government...but that's why I asked!

In one sense, it is. It is a document that you can present to the government that demonstrates that your religious body has entrusted in you the right/responsibility to marry and bury people.