Think a major reason we cannot grasp the LS position is that it appears that some deny the biblical truth that Christians still have sin nature remaining, and can act canral at times, as we would allow for the flesh to control us at those times!
IF you denyt all that, the LS makes more sense!
Our Role In Sanctification: An Imperative
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Reformed, Jun 30, 2014.
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I don't use Wikipedia often, but in this case it may prove to be a better source because it is neutral.
Here is their definition:
The link is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_salvation
It gives a short history of this "doctrine."
According to the definitions of MacArthur and Washer yes it is a works based salvation. Before their time no it wasn't. It has been redefined.
That article will show you how.
Whatever happened to sola fide? One cannot believe in LS and sola fide at the same time. A denial of sola fide in practice makes LS a heretical view. Would you agree with that? I never questioned salvation. One can believe in a heresy and still be saved. I believe that "speaking in tongues," as we know it today is a heresy, but I don't believe all in the Charismatic movement are unsaved.
There is a poster here that does not believe in the depravity of man. I don't believe in the Calvinistic view "Total Inability," but I do believe we all have a sin nature. But to believe that all are born totally innocent like Adam, IMO, is a heretical view. Yet I don't question that person's salvation. I could give many other examples.
We both have different views of LS. Until you come to an understanding of what is meant by LS, we will continue to speak past each other. -
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Reformed,
That you may understand the definition of LS, here is another outspoken critic of the modern definition of LS
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The guy is a fundy nut job and basically implying that any of us who believe in LS are heretics. And in my opinion your implying the same.
http://expreacherman.com/2014/06/22/lordship-salvationists-are-not-disciples/
Then you top it off by posting a link to another fundy nut job.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...n/lordship.htm
If I was a betting man (and I'm not since I'm a good Baptist), but if I was I'd bet that less than 5% of the BB population would take anything from either of these sites seriously, and that according to these guys the same 95% of BB would also be heretics for one reason or another, -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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righteousdude2 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What I believe ....
Sanctification is a two fold process.
1) we are saved and sanctified, with the word sanctified here meaning "set aside!"
2) We then go through the process of sanctification. The process begins at and after our justification, and ends once we reach glorification, or heaven.
OUR ROLE in the process is two fold. We must first be obedient to come to Him in repentance and be saved, and then out of continued obediance, walk in the Spirit, grow in the Spirit, and allow the Spirit to reign within us and to yield to the Spirits direction for our life! -
This is a continuation of the picture of baptism:
Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism to death, that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection;
Verses 4 and 5 picture our baptism. We are buried with him through baptism to death.
If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death...
Our baptism is a picture. It is symbolic of our death to our sinful life and our resurrection to a new life in Christ. We do not believe in baptismal regeneration. It is purely symbolic. There is nothing that actually happened here. It is symbolic.
What did the water do? It made you wet! It didn't make you any more holy or save you.
Immediately after is verse 6:
Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be in bondage to sin.
--Knowing this (the meaning and significance of our baptism),
that our old man is crucified with him (symbolically, as in baptism). Literally, the old man was crucified together with Christ. But the old man, that is, the old nature, was not eradicated. It is you, the person. It was rendered powerless at the cross because Christ gained the victory over sin.
--that the body of sin might be done away with: not the human body, but the old nature that controls. It remains powerless at the cross. But we see in chapter 7 that it is still active; still present; still has power.
So that we no longer be in bondage to sin.
This is not a given. This is his will. Victory is ours as long as we look to the cross. Look to what our baptism signifies. If we have died to sin we have risen with Christ, then freed from sin. That is the picture. Can we act like it? It is not a picture of an eradicated sin nature.
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