Part II: Biblical Doctrine of Election

Does anyone see the biblical doctrine of Election being discussed with supporting scripture.
What the Calvinists are doing is posting non-stop smokescreed to derail discussion of Election doctrine.

 

Again, see the misdirection Van attempts.

The post I made was not directed at salvation, but at your view of human conjured saving faith that you consider innate yet apparently dormant until self activated in every human.

You do not consider faith as God’s to implant. You present human innate faith is in some manner awakened. And that upon God examination of the quantity and quality may or may not credit that human generated faith as righteousness.

Your rendering of 1 Peter is flawed (typical).

However, I don’t have time to spend discussing 1 Peter, this morning.

I do have one question.

What assurance do you bring to believers when you present that they must have enough faith for God to approve of them to be accredited for righteousness?

How does that person actually know?

John wrote of how we know we are redeemed, however you present what starts in the flesh as creditable enough - perhaps - depends on the sincerity or perhaps some other indicators?

 

Again Van is using his accusations against calvinism to bluster about his own credibility.

He seems to think that if he doesn’t toot his horn it remains un-tooted.

 

Galatians

1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
​

Another passage that does not support Van’s scheme.

Vans scheme:
5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.​

See how this is a typical “one can loose their salvation” presentation?

Galatians states how God justifies:

8The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.” 9So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.​

The writer continues:

23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. ​

If, as Van contends, faith is innate, then why does the writer place a time when faith came?

24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
​

If it is human contoured faith that needs to have a certain quality and quantity to be recognized by God for righteousness, then of course one can only be lead to Van’s conclusion. Which is a denial of the writer of Galatians.

 

Smokescreed #14

Agedman is allowed post falsehood with impunity. Notice no mention that no one comes to the Father unless drawn.

This what the Calvinists are allowed to do, misrepresent the views of others with no accountability.

 

So you deny that you have repeatedly presented faith as innate in humans.

You deny that the human faith must have quality and quality in which God then responds?

I haven’t posted falsehood, Van.

But rather than address the issues, you have been distracting attention by demeaning those you oppose.

 

Smokescreed #15

Does anyone see the biblical doctrine of Election being discussed with supporting scripture.
What the Calvinists are doing is posting non-stop smokescreed to derail discussion of Election doctrine.

 

The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.

 

Another non answer from one who knows all about using smoke screening.

See how he refused to address direct questions?

Apparently he never noticed post # 84.

 

I see once again Agedman has posted that I believe in "innate faith." This falsehood he repeats with impunity. Off course no one requires he provide a quote.

The gift of faith is fiction, where God supposedly compels people to "willingly come to faith." Never mind Abraham's faith, referred to as "his faith" is what God credited as righteousness.

 

This laughable.

Van wants to contend he doesn’t think faith is innate, but then presents such a scheme in the next paragraph!

 

Is post #84 idiotic gibberish?
Did I say we have "innate faith?" Nope - so misrepresentation to hide truth.
Must we be drawn by the Father? Yes - so faith is not innate but is based on what we heard and learned from the Father.

On and on this prevaricator hinders actual discussion of the biblical election doctrine.

 

Smokescreed #16

Does anyone actually believe Agedman even knows what "innate" means?

 

Van

Answer plainly.

Is saving faith the gift of God granted to those whom He redeems, or is faith found as part of the human nature that God needs to examine for quality and quantity that it might meet some criteria of being good enough to be credited for righteousness?

 

How many times have I answered this question. 3, 10, more than two dozen?

Saving faith is our faith which God credits as righteousness. Should I repeat that answer? Saving faith is our faith which God credits as righteousness. Did our faith merit being credited as righteousness, or in other words was it already righteous? Of course not, all our works of righteousness are as filthy rags to God. Are we saved by works or by grace. By grace!!!! Should I repeat that?

The biblical doctrine of Election is supported by Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-24 which teach God credits our faith (or not) rather than the complete and total fiction that God uses a supernatural tractor beam to reconfigure the pathways of our brain so that we seek God and love Christ. I have been waiting for more than 5 years for someone to cite 1 Calvin, 1:1, God uses irresistible grace to compel God haters to willing believe in and love Christ. It is a complete fiction folks.

 

Therefore, I didn’t present any thing false concerning your presentation.

You do present that our, my, his, her, ... faith is innate as the human condition in which God uses in examination in crediting for righteousness.

 

More smokescreed, more falsehood, more of the same nonsense.
The Calvinist said I had not answered, which was false because I had answered over and over.
Did I say our faith merited salvation? Nope so more misrepresentation, more falsehood, more nonsense.
Did I say we have "innate faith?" Nope - so misrepresentation to hide truth.
Must we be drawn by the Father? Yes - so faith is not innate but is based on what we heard and learned from the Father.

 

Words twisted to fit the personal agenda?

 

Seems to me you cannot defend your position and is why you attack others. You have no other defense. You and Austin are unable to defend your position on election. Poor little one's have no scripture that helps you out.
MB

 

You didn't answer. Let me ask again.

So...those who are dead in their trespasses and sins do not have faith. Is this statement correct? Yes or no is sufficient.