You can just read this very little bit of Scripture and see plainly that you cannot continue on living in sin and still be called a son of God...
Romans 8:
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
13: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Poll: #3, Suicide & Lapsi
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ed Edwards, Jan 11, 2007.
?
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1. Unsaved suicides go to hell
57.9% -
2. saved suicides go to hell
15.8% -
3. non-repentant lapsi go to hell
10.5% -
4. repentant lapsi go to hell
0 vote(s)0.0% -
5. OSAS suicides & lapsi go to heaven
47.4% -
6. Ignorance & Apathy: I don't know &/or I don't care
15.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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StandingfirminChrist: //If John 3:16 is saying whosoever believeth will be saved, then Revelation 21:8 is a lie. //
John 3:16 is saying "whosoever believeth will be saved".
So by your statement: "Revelation 21:8 is a lie".
This contradicts the Baptist Doctrine that All the Bible is true All the time.
Revelation 21:7 (KJV1611 Edition):
He that ouercommeth,
shall inherite all things,
and I will bee his God,
and he shall be my sonne.
This is logic of the form:
If a person overcomes;
then that person shall inherit all things,
Jesus will be his God,
and he will be the son of Jesus.
Note that the following similiar argument
needs to be proved by other scripture:
If a person overcomes NOT;
then that person shall NOT inherit all things,
Jesus will NOT be his God,
and he will NOT be the son of Jesus
Feel Free to show the scripture that says these things. -
StandingfirminChrist: //If John 3:16 is saying whosoever believeth will be saved, ... //
StandingfriminChrist: //'be saved = 'will not perish, but have everlasting life'//
That message keeps being told over and over in the Holy Scripture.
It is the True Word of God:
Joh 3:14-15 (KJV1611 Edition):
And as Moses lifted vp the serpent in the wildernesse:
euen so must the Sonne of man be lifted vp:
15 That whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
should not perish, but haue eternall life.
John 11:26 (KJV1611 Edition):
And whosoeuer liueth, and beleeueth in mee,
shall neuer die. Beleeuest thou this?
Act 10:43 (KJV1611 Edition):
To him giue all the Prophets witnesse,
that through his Name
whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
shall receiue remission of sinnes.
Yep what is important God says again and again
in His Word (the Holy Bible). -
The drunkard believes in the Lord. My oldest brother is a drunkard. Been drunk every day for at least the last 20 years. Yet according to your logic, my brother is saved because he believes Jesus is the Son of God and believes Jesus died on the cross of Calvary for the sins of mankind.
Sorry Ed, that boat don't float. One cannot continue in sin and walk with the Savior. -
StandingfirminChrist: // ... according to your logic ... //
Logic is not personal, logic is public property.
The phrase 'your logic' is illogical. Try the phrase 'according to that logic'.
StandingfriminChrist: // ... my brother is saved because he believes
Jesus is the Son of God and believes Jesus died on the cross of Calvary
for the sins of mankind.//
If he were saved, then he would believe those things.
He doesn't act saved, being a drunk.
The facts you present don't seem to point out a saved person at all.
StandingfirminChrist: //One cannot continue in sin and walk with the Savior.//
Amen, Brother StandingfirminChrist -- Preach it! :thumbs: -
ED,
Exactly! That is my point. Not all who believe in Jesus will be saved. Jesus will tell many who believe in Him that He never knew them.
There has to be a relationship with that belief.
John clearly said this in his first epistle -
At least the Roman Catholics have made a provision
that a saved person might be forgiven of any unforgiven
sin that they committed right before they when comotose.
That provision is that a Priest can perform a ritual called
'Last Rites' (or Extreme Unction).
Of course, the penalty of going to eternal Hell Fire
after serving God all one's life sure does keep one from
doing things like being judgmental & llying.
Nah, people who beleive unrepented sin will send a
Christian Saint that Jesus Saved to hell -- those
folks act no different from we who think God might cut
us a bit of slack on our last day of awareness.
Just before she died in 1999, my first wife was concerned
that she would 'die right'. I figure if God don't give one
a few practice dyings - then maybe God doesn't count off
too much for 'dying wrong'.
But meanwhile, if this isn't your last day of awareness,
I recommend working with Jesus to get your today's sins
forgiven.
1 John 1:7-9 (KJV1611 Edition):
But if wee walke in the light, as he is in the light,
wee haue fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Iesus Christ his Sonne
clenseth vs from all sinne.
8 If we say that we haue no sinne,
we deceiue our selues, and the trueth is not in vs.
9 If we confesse our sinnes,
hee is faithfull, & iust to forgiue vs our sinnes,
and to cleanse vs from all vnrighteousnesse. -
chance to ask for forgiveness before being killed
but does NOT 'continue in sin'. -
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. -
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webdog,
don't accuse me of lying about my own brother whom you do not know. I stay in contact with family, and am informed of my older brother on a regular basis. -
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But Ed,
Just because they sprinkle a little holy water over you and declare everything to be "okay" doesnt mean anything.
It is because in the Catholic Church they have all of these outward things they do instead of being changed inwardly. "Sacraments".
But you cant just "declare" someone to be holy. You actually have to BE holy.
1Thes:4:7: For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Heb:12:14: Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord
2Cor:7:1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Just as you cant just "declare" someone to be righteous... you have to actually BE righteous:
1Jn:3:7: Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Eph:5:6: Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Claudia -
I have only looked at a couple of posts, but I thought I would post a reply. The question as to whether or not someone that commits suicide will go to heaven will depend largely on one's view of salvation - OSAS versus Conditional Security. Most that believe in OSAS would probably say that suicide would not result in hell for a Christian. For those that believe in some sort of CS, it is not so clear cut. One answer from this belief would be that it would depend on whether or not the person was in Christ (a Christian) when he commited suicide (since this beliefs says that one can fall away from Christ after being saved and return to a lost state.) Some would say that the act of committing suicide would cause the person to no longer be a Christian, and thus the person would go to hell. For CS, it depends on what one believes how one returns to a lost state. Some believe that the Bible teaches that sin or certain sins can cause one to be lost again. Others believe that for a believer to return to a lost state, the person would have to willing reject Christ...basically no longer want to be saved, no longer have faith in Christ to save, etc.
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Secondly, when was the last time you lied? -
ccdnt: //The question as to whether or not someone
that commits suicide will go to heaven will depend
largely on one's view of salvation - OSAS versus
Conditional Security.//
Exactly! Thank you for pointing out the obvious
(some seem not to have seen the obvious yet, so
i'm not even sarcastic when I think you loads for
pointing this out.
Less seriously: We got tired of the topic called
:) #172 OSAS V. Conditional and came up
with a new topic. BTW, one could always say:
The question as to whether or not someone
that becomes lapsi will go to heaven will depend
largely on one's view of salvation - OSAS versus
Conditional Security.
ccdnt: //Most that believe in OSAS would probably say that suicide would not result in hell for a Christian.//
In fact, I believe that most suicides result in hell because the
person isn't a Christian. It is just that I can think of reasons
that a person might be required to suicide to give
'works to his faith'. But this is probably true in way under
1% of the present suicides. And I also think there are people
who unknowningly commit suicide, especially the slow
suicides (drugs, drinking, & smoking). -
forgiveness for it AND GOT FORGIVEN. -
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"Depart from Me, I never knew you"
:rolleyes:
This thread, and this topic lately make me thank God even more that salvation is not...and never has been...dependent on ME! Praise God!:godisgood: -
Strokes run in my mother's side of the family.
Can you spell F-R-Y?
Seriously, I think God would cut me a bit of slack
in honor of His Wonderful Son: Messiah Jesus.
People told me to ask "What would you say if you
went to heaven and God asked you 'Why should I let
you into my heaven?' "
I think I'd say "Check with Jesus".
If Jesus doesn't let me into heave - I ain't gettin' in at all.
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