Poll: Recommendations for College

[Dr. Bob]

Assume that a Christian 12th grade student in your church were to ask you what TYPE of higher education he/she might find the best for them.

Of course, each student is different, but we are looking for a general direction you would promote:

[ February 25, 2002, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]

 

[TomVols]

Is the person called to ministry? Is the person a mature Christian? Does the family have adequate means or is cost a major concern? I can't answer because each person's situation will be different. But I'll answer based on all things being equal and the person is not called to pastor, etc. I'd recommend a good, accredited Baptist college.

 

[David Cooke Jr]

Hard to say. I went to an excellent, nationally ranked state university (Univ. of GA.). I got a great education, but the place was basically Babylon-it was wild, wild, wild. I lean towards sending my daughter (years from now) to Samford, Mercer, or similar, although I know she won't get the experience of meeting people from so many different cultures at such schools. Of course, I'd rather she be denied that if it means she won't be at a hedonistic university like my alma matter.

 

[Rev. Joshua]

David, there's always...ahem...BERRY!

Joshua

P.S. Although I think anywhere with more than about 20 18-22 year-olds is going to be Babylon

 

[Speedpass]

Originally posted by David Cooke, Jr.:
Hard to say. I went to an excellent, nationally ranked state university (Univ. of GA.). I got a great education, but the place was basically Babylon-it was wild, wild, wild. I lean towards sending my daughter (years from now) to Samford, Mercer, or similar, although I know she won't get the experience of meeting people from so many different cultures at such schools. Of course, I'd rather she be denied that if it means she won't be at a hedonistic university like my alma matter.

Traditional "Baptist" schools like Baylor, Mercer, Samford, Wake Forest, et al, in some aspects are no different than any state university.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Of course this was not scientific, just a thermometer to see what is being recommended out there. Find it interesting that in 15 hours there is already a clear division.

Hope others will vote. Glad a person can only vote once!

 

[Jamal5000]

I went to a secular, private university.

I would recommend going to a secular university because at 18 you do not know anything about the world. You need to expose yourself to how it works so that you can understand how the world needs Christ.

If you go to a Bible College/Baptist University, I feel that you run the risk of getting too "sheltered" from the world that you must live and minister within.

[ February 24, 2002, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Jamal5000 ]

 

[David Cooke Jr]

Originally posted by Jimmy Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by David Cooke, Jr.:
Hard to say. I went to an excellent, nationally ranked state university (Univ. of GA.). I got a great education, but the place was basically Babylon-it was wild, wild, wild. I lean towards sending my daughter (years from now) to Samford, Mercer, or similar, although I know she won't get the experience of meeting people from so many different cultures at such schools. Of course, I'd rather she be denied that if it means she won't be at a hedonistic university like my alma matter.

Traditional "Baptist" schools like Baylor, Mercer, Samford, Wake Forest, et al, in some aspects are no different than any state university. </font>[/QUOTE]I've either attended (Mercer), visited (Samford &Wake Forest), or had close friends attend (Furman and Baylor) most of the Baptist Universities. I'm including Wake even though they are far more secular than the others.
In my opinion, Mercer, Samford, Baylor, and Furman are FAR LESS permissive in culture and atmosphere than a public/secular university like University of Georgia. Sure, there may be illict drunkeness and sex at those schools, but here's the difference-At the Baptist schools, that's more likely to happen with your girlfriend/boyfirend who you think you're going to marry. At UGA and the like, you're not quite sure of the other person's name. A sad state of affairs, but the truth.

[ February 25, 2002, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ]

 

[Circuitrider]

Originally posted by Jamal5000:
I went to a secular, private university.

I would recommend going to a secular university because at 18 you do not know anything about the world. You need to expose yourself to how it works so that you can understand how the world needs Christ.

If you go to a Bible College/Baptist University, I feel that you run the risk of getting too "sheltered" from the world that you must live and minister within.

This is the old "hot house" argument. I went to two IFB colleges and survived in the real world. I don't know why my kids could not do the same thing.

The believers who make it through the "wild" secular environment are the survivors, but there are many casualities. Give me the "hot house" anytime.

While we cannot shelter our kids from all outside worldly influence, we should not violate biblical principles of separation and obedience. Since lifelong friends and philosophy of life is formulated in the college setting, that should be a positive and Christian setting if possible.

Proverbs 19:27 applies, "Cease my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge."

 

[Clint Kritzer]

Glad a person can only vote once!

Dr. Griffin, did you try voting twice? LOL

 

[Circuitrider]

...In my opinion, Mercer, Samford, Baylor, and Furman are FAR LESS permissive in culture and atmosphere than a public/secular university like University of Georgia. Sure, there may be illict drunkeness and sex at those schools, but here's the difference-At the Baptist schools, that's more likely to happen with your girlfriend/boyfirend who you think you're going to marry. At UGA and the like, you're not quite sure of the other person's name. A sad state of affairs, but the truth.

Hello!! Are we admitting that "illict drunkenness and sex" is allowable if practiced with girlfriend or boyfriend we think we are going to marry.

Frankly, I would not attend nor send anyone to a school where that would be allowed or condoned on any level. While it may happen at any school, at least the school with some level of control and rules is going to keep most all of it out.

Give me the old Bible College with a strong standard of conduct rules anytime!!!! Proverbs 1:7, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

[ February 25, 2002, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Circuitrider ]

 

[David Cooke Jr]

Originally posted by Circuitrider:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />...In my opinion, Mercer, Samford, Baylor, and Furman are FAR LESS permissive in culture and atmosphere than a public/secular university like University of Georgia. Sure, there may be illict drunkeness and sex at those schools, but here's the difference-At the Baptist schools, that's more likely to happen with your girlfriend/boyfirend who you think you're going to marry. At UGA and the like, you're not quite sure of the other person's name. A sad state of affairs, but the truth.

Hello!! Are we admitting that "illict drunkenness and sex" is allowable if practiced with girlfriend or boyfriend we think we are going to marry.

Frankly, I would not attend nor send anyone to a school where that would be allowed or condoned on any level. While it may happen at any school, at least the school with some level of control and rules is going to keep most all of it out.

Give me the old Bible College with a strong standard of conduct rules anytime!!!! Proverbs 1:7, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."</font>[/QUOTE]You missed my point. These Baptist schools do not condone the behavior I described. What I am saying is that the cultural norms of those schools, as affected by the religious nature of the school, the type student who attends, and the school rules prohibiting such conduct diminishes the occurance and degree of depravity-in other words, the kids party less and aren't as wild as their secular university counterparts.

[ February 25, 2002, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ]

 

[Grace]

I'm going to a secular public university, and after last wednesday in Psychology (not taking it of my own free choice) I wish that I was at a Baptist College (I've wished that before, but no one would accept me now, even if my family could afford it) I think that a lot of teachers do things for the "shock factor" just to see if they can get us Christians to argue with them. I won't argue, I just quietly protest by missing that class (I'm not going to Psyc today because of a video my teacher is showing)

 

[Dr. Bob]

Yes, Grace, I feel for you. That is a difficult place to maintain ANY testimony and not be abused by the unbelievers and scoffers.

Think it's easier to backslide in a Christian college, where you HAVE to study the Bible and HAVE to go to Chapel daily. When you're out in the evil world of secular campus, you either grow or shrivel. It is hard.

Trust me. I've taught 8 years in Bible College settings and taught this past year at Casper College (totally secular, but relatively conservative because of the nature of Wyoming). The secular campus is one difficult place to be a professor, too!

 

[kwob02]

I was baited by my parents to attend Bible college by their promise to pay for it if I went. So I started out at good old BJU, just down the road from home. Well, let me tell you, it was no picnic. And if you think that by sending your student to a school like that you are "protecting" them from drinking, promiscuity, and other "babylon type" behavior, you are fooling yourself. My roomate was a preacher's kid who was quite good at both behaving badly and avoiding detection, even in that environment. It was a corrupting influence on me, after I got over the shock. However, I was also interested in getting a good college education, and that was most definitely not available at BJU.

I gave it one more shot at a Bible college, and transferred to Tennessee Temple. Same story. My roomate, though not a preacher's kid, was there because his parents more or less made him go there. That was a club at TTU that was pretty large. And the quality of the education was again an issue. There is a high level of promiscuity and substance abuse among the students there, as well, and a high rate of turnover. I found that there were almost as many students at these two Bible colleges who did the same things that the party animals at the secular schools do--the big difference being that they have to be more creative at avoiding getting caught because of the rules. However, you also learn that even if you do get caught, there are ways out of the consequences that aren't as bad as they tell you because they need your tuition money. I was surprised that it was pretty hard to actually get kicked out, and there weren't enough school personnel to follow up to see if you actually did your punishment. And many of the student "leaders" could be bribed into looking the other way.

I left there, and decided to finish at a state school where money would not be an issue if I had to pay it all by myself, and the degree would at least be worth something. Another rude awakening! Neither of the two Bible colleges bothered with "secular" accreditation. So, two years of college work went down the drain. Fortunately, the advisor at Clemson had encountered a number of other students in the same predicament from these kinds of "pseudo-colleges" and I wound up at Anderson College, a two year school which is, or at least was, a Baptist school. They helped me patch in some of the credits I had earned at BJU and TTU and after one year there, I was able to transfer to Clemson and finish in two years.

The two years of Bible college were a waste of time. A Baptist college with a liberal arts program AND regional accreditation, like Furman or Gardner-Webb or Charleston Southern, or a good Baptist junior college with regional accreditation like Anderson would be what I would reccomend. If you are strong in your faith, then go to Clemson, or USC, or one of the state schools and be a witness. You are needed there.

[ March 01, 2002, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: kwob02 ]

 

[Dr. Bob]

Transfer of credits - so you are not "wasting" money and time and having to repeat basic classes - is one reason so many opt for an accredited Bible College rather than some of the "mickey mouse" programs that pass today for a "college" education.

To the world, the word "college" implies a strong academic program in a great variety of fields. Most of our ifb church-related colleges are just Bible institutes. Nothing wrong with that, just wish there was truth in advertising.

 

[Maverick]

I believe in appreticeship for the ministry and a solid Baptist college for anything else be it
accredited or not. Accreditation is just a good old boy thing. Most of the secular schools are accredited, but standards are so far lower than they were 50 years ago so it means very little.
Most schools that do not get accrediation either do not desire to be controlled by some agency
or cannot be accredited because of some stand they take. It does not mean that their education is inferior. I have been in state and private schools and in the classroom the private ones fair far better. My son did two years of private school and then finished up in secular schools and the classes were better in the private.

If I was sending one to school now, I would go with the Independent Baptists Schools because most, if not all of the SBC schools ahve been infilitrated by rank Liberals. I ministered on Wake Forest for awhile and I saw no difference in spirituality or belief than I would have foud at U of GA. Many of the kids I talked to were atheist or agnostic and I was told many of the professors were as well. That was bak in the mid-80's and usually things get worse instead of better so I dread to imagine what it might like by now.

I would definitely never send a pastoral candidate to college. There are enough materials available that any pastor should be able to disciple and train a man. Why pay big dollars to go to a school where they will work hard to undermine you faith in the Word of God? Indeed, why watse the time and money and uproot your family? Why ship the gifts God gave your church to another state? Too many of our churches are sickly becuse God gave them what they needed and they shipped them off to a college to end up somewhere else. Often they end up in areas flooded with the same spiritual gifts resulting in some not getting to use theirs and then they get discouraged ane even quit.

Preachers, find your Timothy's and train them yourself. Indeed, train your replacement so your church wil not have to go through the current nonsense of trying to find a pastor that has no clue about your area or your people and leave them to go through five men in 10 years when God has most likely already raised up the man they need amongst them.

 

[LP]

I went one year to a non-denominational missions-oriented Christian University called University of the Nations, which included 4 months of service abroad. EVERY person in the school was radical sold out for God, and that period formed the basis for all my other higher education in a way I could not have imagined. I think it best for one to GET OUT of their church culture for a while if they have been in it all their life. More, to GET OUT of their US culture. Such an experience is invaluable more than I can tell.

[ March 08, 2002, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: LP ]

 

[LP]

The following program is outstanding and is equiivilent to the first year of college--but unique, powerfully Christian:

http://www.uscwm.org/insight/

The above takes one to all the info, but here is the lead info from the page:

Often young people go away to college and find themselves suddenly caught up in some specialized field without an understanding of reality as a whole. Insight is all about taking a step back and saying, "OK, is there any theme or pattern in the history of the world?" In the Insight program, you have the freedom to deal honestly with the questions that arise from looking at history, philosophy, anthropology and modern developments in science from a Christian perspective. Believe it or not, you eventually come to some conclusions about an overall "big picture."

The Insight program is not meant to provide quick answers to fit preconceived biases; rather it is meant to be an opportunity to carefully and logically examine various aspects of reality as portrayed through world history. What results is a strong foundation in reality upon which you can continue to build your life. In the end, you will not be satisfied. Rather, you will be filled with an insatiable passion to understand more and be a beacon to others who seek to know truth.

For more information, please contact:
INSIGHT
1605 Elizabeth Street
Pasadena, CA 91104

Ph: 626-398-2433
Fax: (626) 398-2111
e-mail: [email protected]

It is in conjunction with William Carey International University

 

[Rev. Sam]

I think it is important that a person attend college but I feel too much pressure is put on these new kids going into Bible college. We need to be care we don't push them over board.