http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html
POPE:You don't have to believe in God to Get to Heaven
Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Zaac, Sep 11, 2013.
Page 1 of 2
-
-
-
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
That is not what the pope said. I would encourage everyone to read his actual words.
-
-
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
-
That reasoning is extended to mentally retarded adults as well, so there's another class.
So, IF there were some tribe somewhere that never heard the Gospel, you would say they aren't accountable, and do not need faith to enter. -
Calvinist/Non-calvinist aside.
This is just wrong.
Here are his exact words from the article:
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
-
Essentially, these are the points Francis is making. He said absolutely nothing, as the title of the thread claims, about not needing to believe in God. That's a massive erroneous leap to a wrong conclusion, reading into what he said something that is not there. -
Aaron said: ↑This is the conclusion of all noncalvinist thought.Click to expand...
-
thisnumbersdisconnected said: ↑What part of that isn't true, Ann? Does the sinner not have to be contrite in their approach to God? Is the sinner who seeks God not led by their conscience to do so? (Note to other members: I don't want any Calvinistic doctrine thrown at this comment because the Bible does not teach that man has no responsibility whatsoever, so don't even bother! This thread isn't about Calvinism so take it somewhere else.) And finally, Ann, is it not possible for a sinner to have guilt over that sin?
Essentially, these are the points Francis is making. He said absolutely nothing, as the title of the thread claims, about not needing to believe in God. That's a massive erroneous leap to a wrong conclusion, reading into what he said something that is not there.Click to expand... -
Thinkingstuff Active Memberannsni said: ↑Well, if a person obeys their conscience - and their conscience is wrong Biblically - it sounds like sin is not present according to the Pope.Click to expand...God's mercy has no limits if he who asks for mercy does so in contrition and with a sincere heartClick to expand...For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. - Romans 2:14Click to expand...EVERY ONE HAS HEARD people quarreling. Sometimes it sounds funny and sometimes it sounds merely unpleasant; but however it sounds, I believe we can learn something very important from listening to the kinds of things they say. They say things like this: "How’d you like it if anyone did the same to you?"--‘That’s my seat, I was there first"--"Leave him alone, he isn’t doing you any harm"--"Why should you shove in first?"--"Give me a bit of your orange, I gave you a bit of mine"--"Come on, you promised." People say things like that every day, educated people as well as uneducated, and children as well as grown-ups.
Now what interests me about all these remarks is that the man who makes them is not merely saying that the other man’s behavior does not happen to please him. He is appealing to some kind of standard of behavior which he expects the other man to know about. -CS LEWISClick to expand... -
Thinkingstuff said: ↑Doesn't sound anything like that. In fact the Pope spoke about forgiving a person with a contrite heart who comes to God for forgiveness. Ie and as conscience let me once again bring up Romans 2:14 It is clear then that there is a mechanism within the Human being non believer and believer alike that has an intuitive guide to wrong and right. Let me refer you to C.S. LewisClick to expand...
What if they stand at the throne of judgment after denying God all their lives and now suddenly are standing there saying "I'm sorry!! I'm so sorry!!!!"?? -
Bro. James Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Sounds like his eminence has not been to total depravity of man class lately. All of us need to review our depravity often. It helps us to realize the totality of God's Grace.
"All have sinned and come short of God's Glory"
"Salvation is of The Lord"
Even so, come, Lord Jesus. -
Thinkingstuff Active Memberannsni said: ↑If he speaks of one coming to Christ then yes, God forgives them.
What if they stand at the throne of judgment after denying God all their lives and now suddenly are standing there saying "I'm sorry!! I'm so sorry!!!!"??Click to expand...
The Catholic Church teaches quite clearly what happens in that case (as does the bible)Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. - CCCClick to expand... -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporterannsni said: ↑If he speaks of one coming to Christ then yes, God forgives them.
What if they stand at the throne of judgment after denying God all their lives and now suddenly are standing there saying "I'm sorry!! I'm so sorry!!!!"??Click to expand... -
I've identifed two classes of man which, according to noncalvinists, may enter Heaven without faith in Christ.
And now they're arguing that the remaining classes merely need sincerity to do so. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
And if I may depart from the OP for a moment...If I evaluate my own life's 32 years as a Roman Catholic, I have to state that sin was embraced as a reality to human nature & so it was the works that were emphasized as the redeeming grace...you had to act...you had to do something to further the kingdom. I have seen allot of puffs masquerading as priests...but ive also seen some really serious men who were masculine and served as priests...who would walk the streets helping people (every day). Conversely as a non-catholic over 25 years now I have only observed one pastor (a PC- USA) guy who went out...take that back....two Presbyterians who went out to people. In scripture John 20 : 27. Have we forgotten.
Page 1 of 2