I've explained part of it in my post# 73 , guess you don't bother reading what others write to you.
Prayer clothes?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Dec 6, 2011.
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Why ask Mary to pray for us? For the same reason you would ask the person that goes to your church to pray for you.
Why ask the person that goes to your church to pray for you. if praying directly to Jesus does it all. Why ask another to pray for you period.
Did you read from the Bible those verses that I pointed out where God permits the use of religious statues and images , so long as we avoid idolatry ?
And by the way, I am a Catholic revert and I have studied the Bible religiously as a Baptist fundamentalist, now as a Catholic I read it dailey as it was intended to be interpreted , just the very same way as did those Catholic Bishops that interpreted all those many different canonical and non- canonical books that they had to seperate. In order to know which were Canonical, those bishops had to have known the correct" One True " interpretation. By saying that the Catholic Church has the wrong interpretation , how can you be sure that all the Books in your NT are the correct ones ? And don't give me some malarky story. the Holy Bible never had a 'Table of Contents ' to list which Books belonged in the completed Bible. It was the bishops and the bishops alone through the guidence of the HS that gave us the correct List of Canon. Can you imagine if one of the many thousands of other churches ,if one of them attempted at selecting the correct Books with their Johnny-come-lately man-made interpretation, our Holy Bible would most definitely be classified as an unholy bible book.
There only was and still only "One True Interpretation' and it belongs to Christs' Apostolic Church, [ Luke 10:16] that is the only Church that contains the 'Fullness of the Christian Faith". -
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Speaking of Himself in the Ten Commandments God said:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; (Exodus 20:4-5)
Could anything be any plainer?
I don't misrepresent the Catholics at all. This is what they do; this is what the Bible calls idolatry. It is a flagrant transgression of the Ten Commandments. To say that you pray to the person whom it represents, well even witchdoctors do that. The most pagan of religions do the same. A Satanist can make an image and pray to the demon it represents. It is always what it represents. -
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The Bible says:
"There is one mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus."
--No one else can intercede on our behalf. Praying to any other person is idolatry and always has been. Christ alone is our intercessor.
1John 2:1 "Little children I right unto you that you sin not, but if any man sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.
--Our advocate (lawyer, go-between, mediator, intercessor) is Jesus Christ. He alone can do this for us. Mary cannot. Like all who have gone before us Mary has a place where she is buried. She is dead. Praying to the dead is wrong. I don't pray to my grand-parents and I would not, therefore pray to Mary. They are all dead!!!
I do not pray TO my friends, and my friends do not pray TO me.
There is a big difference. To pray TO someone is idolatry.
The RCC prays TO Mary and all of its various saints, including the ones that don't really exist like St. Christopher.
The Jews never accepted them.
The Protestants never accepted them
Other versions don't have them.
The weight of history is against the RCC.
The contain false doctrine, and are not inspired.
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He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Who is the "He"? Well, here is the same verse in its context, Colossians 1.13-18:
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.So the verse you quoted says absolutely nothing about us making images. Rather, it says that Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God.
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When Catholics enter a Catholic Church they genuflect or bow before entering their pew. In this instance they would be 'bowing TO' something. They believe in the presence of Christ in the consecrated bread that is kept in the tabernacle and bow in reverence to that. Now, if they are wrong about the 'Real Presence' of Christ in the bread and wine, then I would say they are guilty of idolatry for the attention they give it. Make sense? -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Ex. 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:
This commandment is broken by Catholics almost daily. They bow down before pictures on a wall, before statutes, before baked bread in a box and then give an explanation to avoid the obvious condemnation of scripture for WHAT they do and HOW they do it. -
I have asked Catholics about this and they insist they are not worshipping statues or pictures. I trust they know who and what they are worshipping.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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However a Hindu will say the same thing. If asked about the idols of Ganesh (elephant god) or Ram, they will say they are not praying to the idol but the god behind the idol, what the image represents. So what is the difference? There is none. Both are idolatry, and are condemned in the Bible as such. -
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Veneration, reverence is all part of worship which is due only to God. Taking it away from God and giving it to another is nothing but idolatry.
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