I think I understand now why James White always seem unhappy with Leighton Flowers. Dr. Flowers claims to be a former Calvinist, while repeatedly showing that he never understood Calvinism in the first place. James White is good friends with Michael Brown, an Arminian, so it's not like James White just hates Arminians.
Re: Does Paul's conversion prove Calvinism's teaching on Irresistible Grace?
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Humble Disciple, Jun 30, 2021.
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I am aware of the verses cited by Calvinists supposedly in support of the fiction, but in truth, there are no verses that actually support the fiction of irresistible grace. (Also sold under the name "Gift of Faith.") -
If you are among God's elect, you might commit a serious sin or fall away from the faith, but God will intervene in your life, some way and somehow, to restore you back to right relationship with Him. -
There is great hope to be found in the doctrine of irresistible grace:
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One thing I like about Calvinism is that you can't be a modernist Christian with a low view of scripture and still be a Calvinist.
If you don't believe that Adam was a historical person, by whom all humanity inherited sin and death, that Jesus is fully divine and fully human and offered Himself as the perfect substitute for our sin, and that He physically rose from the dead to conquer death on our behalf, then it's impossible for you to be a Calvinist.
There's no reason to look for proofs of the doctrines of Calvinism in the Bible if you don't believe the Bible is inerrant on these other basic teachings. If you believe you have the free will to reject basic Bible doctrines, then you aren't going to believe that God has elected some to salvation and not others, no matter what the text might say.
A Calvinist might say that God's eternal decree to save some and not others seems unfair, but we should believe it anyway because that's what the Bible teaches. Arminians, on the other hand, typically begin with their own idea of fairness and then read that into the text.
Most Calvinists would become Arminian if it were demonstrated that the Bible definitively proves Arminianism, whereas most Arminians wouldn't accept Calvinism, even if it were definitively proven by the Bible, because it goes against their own standard of fairness.
Anti-Calvinists are usually also ignorant of church history, that the basic doctrines of Calvinism were already taught by Augustine against Pelagius and Luther against Rome. The doctrines we know today as “Calvinism” are only called that because it was John Calvin who popularized them.
This is from Luther's 97 Theses, which he wrote before his 95 Theses:
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This is Augustine on Romans 9:
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The gospel means good news.
Well, the person of stony groud, "They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:13 (Matthew 13:20-21).
Then there are those who refuse to hear.
Acts of the Apostles 7:51, "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."
And Hebrews 10:28-29, "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
So no, God's grace is not irresistable to everyone. -
Irresistible grace doesn't mean that God's elect will never resist God's grace.
It means that God's grace is ultimately powerful enough and faithful enough to overcome our resistance.
There are numerous passages of scripture which support the doctrine of irresistible grace. -
Why did you not provide a definition for Irresistible Grace? Answer, you know it cannot be supported from scripture.
Why is it hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom? No answer will be forthcoming...
Luke 18:24 And Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God! If compelled by irresistible grace, the difficulty would be the same for everyone despite their circumstances, i.e. non-existent. -
Here are quotations from the early church fathers supporting the five points of Calvinism, most of whom from before the time of Augustine:
https://www.apuritansmind.com/arminianism/calvinism-in-the-early-church-the-doctrines-of-grace-taught-by-the-early-church-fathers/
Here are passages from the Bible supporting the five points of Calvinism:
https://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html
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tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:
2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Each and every child of God is quickened the same way, by the Holy Spirit alone!
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
This is in relation to the quickening and it is talking about the same event, being born again (regeneration) and I can hear some on here saying no its not... Then you are saying there are more resurrections, then Jesus Christ being resurrected and us?
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Irresistible grace!... Don't leave earth without it because you will NEVER get in Heavens doors singing I did it my way... Brother Glen:) -
There is nothing unfair about predestination. No one who desires to be saved will be turned away. (John 6:37) If you care about your salvation, that’s a sign you are among God’s elect.
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
PS: Pam and I are going to be grandparents for the first time. God is good!!! -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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So we have yet another person pushing the false doctrine of Calvinism by evading actual discussion of its obvious non-biblical nature. There are no verses that actually support the TULI of Calvinism, only vague or ambiguous verses where Calvinism must be read into the text. -
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