Who exactly are you talking about?
Reaching Women and Children With Woman Pastors
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Aug 10, 2010.
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"We should all just love one another" Throw everything else in the garbage. Now here is your new minister, Paster Julie. Next you get female elders....and off we go. After a while, even my wife was nauseated by it all claiming it had become feminineized.
Go further, The Bishop of NJ for the Episcopal Church in the day, Bishop John Shelby Spong was a nice guy trying to be what he called fair to the Gay community. He ordained a homosexual man who promised both Spong & the Episcopal Church that he would remain celibate & focus his full time on growing the church for Christ. Once ordained & given a parish, he proceeded to break all promises & the rest is history. Spong today has become so heretical that he teaches a gospel where Christ never really existed.
Yes Ive seen it first hand.....the slipper slope. -
So how will you teach those looking to you for leadership to help them carry out the commands Jesus gave? Anyone knows that the lecture method is the poorest method of personal discipleship. Lectures give out lots of information at once but do nothing to get people to do much. For example there was an ordained deacon in a church I pastored and he was a great teacher. He was a leader in the previous church he was at and involved in the denomination in teaching people and in a church ministry outside of the church. I had worked with most of the men in the church in a personal setting training them to be leaders for one and a half years. At the end of that time it was time to send them out. I sent them out with their families. That man started shaking uncontrollably. At the end of two hours he was a changed man. He was motor mouth and had started two Bible studies as a result. No amount of sermon would have done anything. It was that one time experience that have him confidence in God and that enabled him to share his faith. That man became the number one leader in that church almost over night. His son leads a youth group in a church. Before that he was a fearful teacher in the church. Today he is a changed man.
Currently I meet with a young man who at one time came to church every Sunday because his family did but for three years he was recruiting people to atheism. I met with him twice and then realized how wrong he was and now follows Jesus. He has been talking to me about how to make disciples. He is now sharing the gospel with his friends instead of leading them astray. How much did sermons do for him? When I talked with him personally our discussions ahd nothing to do with sermons he had heard but about some of the things he had read. I showed him a dialog I had with someone he had read and pointed out the nonsense of what he believed. My discussions with him had more to do with historical context, literary genre, and textual criticism.
If we want to see the lives of men and women changed we must enable them to live out their faith as Jesus did with his disciples instead of taking the easy route and making excuses and just preaching.
While preaching is only a small part of making disciples is just that a small part. -
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Preaching is not a small part in making disciples.
You say Jesus gave the vision and the methodology that works. Nonsense. Jesus and the Apostles showed us how to do it. We ought to follow their example. If I'll do the things they tell me to do, it'll work. I don't need man's methods, I need God's. How did they make disciples? Through preaching the gospel. -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I used to think I was a pretty good preacher until I listened to some of my own preaching several years later. I said to myself, "Wow! People listened to that?" The time that we think we are a great preacher is when we need a big dose of humility. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I dont know what they teach @ Westminster but their graduates come out of that seminary with some wonderful preaching skills....I mention it because I kind of miss that. What I dont miss is their intellectualizing & arrogance (not all) & their Legalism. I had to walk away from that mindset.
I am now going to a Regular Baptist church & I am happy with the Pastor. He is a humble guy willing to pastor his congregation. He isnt near the awe inspiring preaching I'm used to but he is much more committed to growing the church & that will hopefully carry him through. -
Preaching is how disciples are made. That's not an arrogant statement, that's a factual statement. Preaching is God's ordained method to make disciples.
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I have got two books for you to read if you really think preaching makes disciples. Following the Master: A Biblical Theology of Discipleship by Michael J. Wilkins and Pastoring Men: What Works, What Doesn't, and Why It Matters Now More Than Ever by Patrick Morley. Both of those men are making disciples.
Can you explain how people can sit in a church and listen to you and then go out and make disciples? My experience has been quite the opposite. Almost everyone I meet with has been in a church for years doing nothing. Almost everyone of them within two years is starting to do some kind of ministry on their own.
Preaching works so good that a young man I meet with each week spent three years making disciples of atheism while listening to the preacher speak each week from the Bible in the same Baptist Church I attend. Almost one year ago I met him and started dealing with the questions he had. He had issues in regards to textual criticism, historical context, and literary context.When was the last time you dealt with those in a sermon? -
I know a man who was like what you are saying about your pastor and his church went from about 250 to over 4000. He was not all that of a good preacher but he knew how to make disciples and the entire church was involved in that. That church sent missionaries all over the world and their whole approach was to work with the locals to make disciples and establish churches. They have never been the big guru in the world making a big splash. They did not have a flashy preacher but he was a man of God.
I am still challenged by a humble man who was the president of a mission board who was in India at the time. He preached for one month at the church. People and staff were saying that he changed our church because of who he was. IT was a churhc of about 1200 in regular attendance. -
You keep presenting me with books written only by men. I could care less what some man thinks about preaching and making disciples. I'm much more concerned with what the bible says since it came from God. God said we make disciples by teaching them whatsoever He has commanded us. We make disciples by preaching the gospel.
For some reason you place preaching inside of a box. That box is a church building on a Sunday morning. Look, preaching can occur anywhere at any time. When you get two people together there can be some preaching go on. I preached to a woman one time two days before Christmas in front of my house at probably 7 o'clock at night after she got stuck and I helped her get her car out. She had recently lost her husband and the devil was attacking her hard. I just simply preached the word and the Lord blessed.
Preaching is God's ordained way of making disciples. Preaching is the power of God. It is how God's people learn, are edified and corrected, and are made free by the truth. That's what the bible says. -
The reasons given are ordained by God, founded in God's creation, recorded in scripture (which Paul quotes even as he writes new scripture), and are regulative for eternity (at least all "time" this side of heaven).
peace to you:praying:
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