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RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 3rdAngel, Sep 7, 2019.

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  1. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Receiving God's Spirit is condional on believing and following God's Word. If we are not born of the Spirit we are still in our sins. When Christ was with his disciples God's Spirit was not in them it was with them. It was not until the death of Jesus that the outpouring of God's Spirit was given to the dsciples.

    JOHN 7:38-39
    [38], He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. [39], But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.

    JOHN 16:13 [13], However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

    Christ’s glorification and His ascension to heaven were necessary BEFORE the Holy Spirit could be given to His disciples. While He was alive as a human being, He told His disciples that He was WITH them, but He also said that there would come the time when He would be IN them. He referred, first, to His presence as a Man who was WITH them, but in the future, to the gift of His Holy Spirit which would dwell IN them (John 14:17). But in order for Christ to dwell IN His disciples (John 14:18; Galatians 2:20), through the Holy Spirit, He had to be first glorified with the glory which He had BEFORE He became a human being (John 17:5). As a mere human being, He could not live IN somebody else. That could only happen after He became again a glorified being.

    When a true disciple of Christ receives God’s Holy Spirit, it is the Spirit of the Father AND the Son which emanates from both glorified God beings, and which dwells in the disciple (John 14:23; Romans 8:11, 14-17; Romans 8:9, second part; Galatians 4:6; Philippians 1:19).

    ...........

    JOHN 3:3-8
    [3], Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    [4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
    [5], Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    [6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    [7], Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again.
    [8], The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    ACT 2:38 [38], Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    ROMANS 8:1-14
    [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
    [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    [5], For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    [6], For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    [7], Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    [8], So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    [9], But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    [10], And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    [11], But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.
    [12], Therefore, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    [13], For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
    [14], For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    ROMANS 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    1 CORINTHIANS 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

    1 CORINTHIANS 3:1, Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

    2 CORINTHIANS 12:7-13,
    [7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man (context to believers) to profit with.
    [8], For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
    [9], To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
    [10], To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
    [11], But all these works that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
    [12], For as the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
    [13], For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    2 CORINTHIANS 1:22 Who has also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

    2 CORINTHIANS 3:3-6,
    [3] For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the letter of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
    [4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
    [5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
    [6], Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.

    GALATIANS 3:2-3 [2], This only would I learn of you, Received you the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?[3], Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?

    GALATIANS 5:16 [16],16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

    GALATIANS 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    GALATIANS 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    GALATIANS 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

    GALATIANS 5: 18, But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    GALATIANS 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    EPHEISANS 1:13 In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.

    1 JOHN 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.

    ...........

    QUESTION FOR THE OP

    Q1, Can we receive God's Spirit by believing and following God's Word then lose it?
     
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  2. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    " But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
    13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
    ( John 1:12-13 ).

    " John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." ( John 3:27 )

    " That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
    ( John 3:6-8 )

    " For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." ( Romans 6:23 ).

    " Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
    18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
    " ( James 1:17-18 ).
     
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  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Thank you. This supports the OP and shows that receiving God's Spirit is conditional on believing and following God's Word.
     
  4. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer New Member

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    "God beings"? Weird terminology, friend.
     
  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    ??
     
  6. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer New Member

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    You said,
    "God beings" is weird terminology. It's not really what you find in the Bible.
     
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Probably could have been worded better. God beings here meaning the Father and the Son. Thanks for your suggestion. Did you have any other comments in relation to the OP? Thanks for sharing Nicolaus.
     
  8. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer New Member

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    Well, a question I did have: could you elaborate on what you mean by, "follow God's word?" I agree with you in regard to believing as a condition, but you said "believe and follow God's word." You mind expanding on that idea? What does it mean to follow God's word? Does it mean following God's law?
     
  9. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  10. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hello Nicolaus, nice to see you again. Well this is a little off the OP but if you would like a detailed scripture response you might like to see some earlier discussions on the subject in this forum section in the threads called ...

    Is salvation conditional on choosing to believe and follow Gods Word?
    Can you lose salvation and eternal life?
    Do we have free will to choose to believe and follow God?

    Simply though it is exactly as it says it means. God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him (does what he says) *JOHN 10:1-4; JOHN 10:26-27.

    God bless
     
  11. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Read them again, carefully.

    The first one details men receiving God, but that men are not born again by their own will, the will of others, or by inheritance ( blood ).
    The will of God is the only determiner when it comes to being born again.

    The next one tells us that a man can receive nothing except it were given to him from Heaven.
    In other words, not earned by condition.

    The third one details the working of the Spirit, and that He goes where ever He wants, doing whatever He wants...
    So is everyone that is born of the Spirit.
    In other words, they are the result of the Spirit's working...not man's working according to "conditions".

    The 4th one states that every good gift and every perfect gift...that includes and most importantly, emphasizes eternal life, which is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ) not a reward for meeting a condition...comes down from the Father of lights ( see Matthew 5:14,Philippians 2:15 ).
    Of His own will He begat ( fathered, brought forth ) the believer, with His word.
    Not our will.

    Again, the only condition that occurred was His working, not ours.

    Therefore, salvation is unconditional and does not depend on man's will or efforts.
    It is a gift.


    1) No.
    Mankind, apart from the work of God, is dead in trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2:1-3, Ephesians 4:17-19 ), and cannot even receive the things of God ( 1 Corinthians 2:14 ) because they are spiritually discerned.
    The new birth is necessary to even begin to follow God and His commands.

    2) No.
    Salvation, a sure thing determined by God whose work it is, cannot be lost because it was never determined by man's will, nor does it rely on anything a man can do.
    It was determined by God's will ( Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:3-13, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ) and relies on His perfect efforts in conjunction with His Son's perfect efforts.
    Being born again, a necessary product of salvation, is by the will of God, not men ( John 1:13, James 1:18, Titus 3:5-6 ).

    3) No.
    Man's will, tied to his corrupt nature, does not desire the things of God ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20, Psalms 10:4, Psalms 14:1-3, Psalms 54:1-3, Psalms 58:2-3 and many others ).
    When God changes the heart that is darkened through our own sinful activities, it results in a heart that is now soft towards the Lord and a mind that is no longer at enmity with Him.

    The will that was formerly against God, is now free to choose to obey Him.
    They have been set free from sin ( Romans 6:1-11 )
     
    #11 Dave Gilbert, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  12. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I agree, sir.

    My question is, how does a man who is dead in trespasses and sins, do a work of righteousness?
    Especially when God's word states:

    " For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another.
    4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."
    ( Titus 3:5-6 )

    ...that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy.

    Salvation is by God's mercy, not by man meeting conditions to gain it.
    Being born again is by the will of God ( John 1:13, James 1:18 ), not by the will of men who are still dead in their trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 4:17-19 ), with a mind that is at enmity with God ( Romans 8:5-8 ).

    I'll re-phrase the question in case it is not clear enough:

    How does a person who is content with being at odds with God, hates God ( Romans 1:30 ), does not seek Him ( Romans 3:10-12 ) loves darkness and hates Christ the Light of the world and refuses to come to Him, lest their deeds should be reproved ( John 3:19-20 ), go against their natural desires and perform that which God says is impossible ( John 6:44 )...to come to Christ for forgiveness of their sins?



    A person that is dead in sins and not born again, cannot come to God in order to be reconciled to Him.
    That work can only be performed by God.
    :Smile
     
    #12 Dave Gilbert, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  13. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Now for the answer to the question posed here:
    No.

    Belief is a gift ( Philippians 1:29 ).
    People believe because they are of Christ's sheep ( John 10:26 ).
    People believe because they are ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).
    Belief is a work of God ( John 6:29 ), not a work of men.
    Belief of the truth is something that God chooses a person to salvation through ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), not because of.
    A person has to have both the Father and Son revealed to them ( Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22 ), and have their understanding opened ( Luke 24:45 ) before they can come to God.

    Those that come to Christ can never be lost, because Christ will lose none of the ones the Father has given to Him ( John 6:39 ).
    They shall not come into condemnation, because they are passed from death unto life ( John 5:24 ).

    Spiritual death for the true child of God is a fallacy not present in Scripture, the same as gaining spiritual life by the will and efforts of men is a fallacy.
    God decides who to save, and God decides who to damn... not the ones who are worthy of nothing but death.

    God does not present men with a choice that has already been made in both our hearts and minds....
    To hate God and love sin.

    Unlike Israel under the Law of Moses, He does not present mankind with a choice to choose life or to choose death ( which was physical life and physical death by the keeping of the Law...not eternal life and death ).
    Romans 1:18-32 tells us that the choice has already been made.


    Those that are in a constant state of rebellion are not consulted as to their choices, since we are not our own Judge and Jury.
    Prison awaits all whom God does not decide to pardon.:(
     
    #13 Dave Gilbert, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Thankyou, I read them carefully the first time :)

    No one said man is born again by their own free will. Being born again is the wordk of God in those who by their free will choose to believe God's Word *JOHN 3:15-21. It is the Spirit the quickeneth the flesh profit nothing the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life *JOHN 6:63. It is our faith in God's Word that gives us the victory to over come the world and be born of God *1 JOHN 5:4. Our free will is in believing God's Word or not believing God's Word *JOHN 3:15-21.

    While it is true it is the work of God's Spirit that changes the heart to the new covenant promise of love *HEBREWS 8:10-12 if you do not believe God's Word than there is no promise for you and you cannot be born again. We are only born again as we choose to believe God's Word *JOHN 3:3-8; JOHN 3:18; 1 JOHN 3:6-10. We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH in God's Word *EPHESIANS 2:8-9 and FAITH comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. If there is no Word there can be no faith. If we choose to believe God's Word then there is faith. If you do not believe God's Word there is no faith and you cannot be saved.

    No one said that anyone can receive anything if it is not given him from Heaven. If no one has said such things why are you pretending that they have? What is it that is given us from Heaven do you know? For God so loved the world that he GAVE his only begotten son that whosoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting life *JOHN 3:16. JESUS is the gift of God that God gives us. JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4 who came unto his own and his own received him not *JOHN 1:10-11; but has many as recevied him (believed his Word) gave he them power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVED on him name *JOHN 1:12; who were born not of blood, nor of the will of men but of God *JOHN 1:13. The Word of God is God's gift if you do not believe it then you have no life in you and cannot be born of God. What we receive from Heaven is JESUS; the Word of God. We choose to believe or not believe. Only those who believe Gods Word are born again. Those who do not believe do not receive him or do they know him.

    Now let's get something chear. We are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. God's GRACE is given to mankind for OBEDIENCE to the faith *ROMANS 1:5. OBEDIENCE to God's Word is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

    ............

    Lets stop here for now. As I believe there has been enough scripture provided here to show that God's Word disagrees with you and what you are saying is not what has been shared with you here at all.

    Hope this helps
     
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    This section of the post was only provided to refer someone to a question already asked that has already been answered elsewhere to the titles thread in this section of the forum. It would be easier simply to provide the links but these threads have been closed as they are over the posting limit for threads in this forum. So I wll simply provide a detailed response to your claims here in separate posts.

    Your response to the first question

    WRONG!

    God's Word says that we can receive nothing except it is given us from Heaven *JOHN 3:27; JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14; JOHN 3:16 given us from Heaven. He came unto his own and His Own did not receive (believe) him JOHN 1:11. It is only those who receive him that he gives power to become born again to become sons and daighters of God *JOHN 1:12-13; JOHN 3:15. God's Word (JESUS) is given us from Heaven. If you do not BELIEVE (receive) Him you cannot be born again as we are only saved by grace THROUGH FAITH and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It is the Spirit the quickeneths the flesh profits nothing; the Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *JOHN 6:63.

    Now we have dealt with your interpretation and arguement. What does God's Word say on the subject?

    Let's look at it in the next post...
     
  16. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    SALVATION AND GOD'S PROMISES ARE CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD

    THE LITTLE WORD “IF” DEMONSTRATES IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT HEBREW AND GREEK SCRIPTURES THAT SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL ON FREE WILL TO CHOOSE TO BOTH BELIEVE AND FOLLOW (FRUIT) GOD'S WORD (present tense) OR NOT TO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD.

    OLD TESTAMENT (Not definitive)

    IF” (Hebrew) *H518; אם;'im; A primitive particle; used very widely as demonstrative, lo !; interrogitive, whether ?; or conditional, if, although ; also Oh that !, when ; hence as a negative, not: - (and, can-, doubtless, if, that) (not), + but, either, + except, + more (-over if, than), neither, nevertheless, nor, oh that, or, + save (only, -ing), seeing, since, sith, + surely (no more, none, not), though, + of a truth, + unless, + verily, when, whereas, whether, while, + yet.

    We must do well according to Gods' Word (believe and follow) in order to be accepted...

    GENESIS 4:7 IF (conditional) you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And to you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.

    Consequences for not believing and following...

    GENESIS 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for you, and you shall live: and IF (conditional) you restore her not, know you that you shall surely die, you, and all that are yours.

    EXODUS 4:23 And I say to you, let my son go, that he may serve me: and IF (conditional) you refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay your son, even your firstborn.

    Blessings for believing and following...

    EXODUS 15:26 And said, IF (conditional) you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in his sight, and will give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases on you, which I have brought on the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you.

    LEVITICUS 26:3-5 [3], IF (conditional) you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; [4] THEN I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. [5], And your threshing shall reach to the vintage, and the vintage shall reach to the sowing time: and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

    LEVITICUS 26:14-18 [14], But IF (conditional) you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; [15] And IF (conditional) you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that you will not do all my commandments, but that you break my covenant: [16], I also will do this to you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. [17], And I will set my face against you, and you shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and you shall flee when none pursues you. [18], And IF (conditional) you will not yet for all this listen to me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

    There are too mant more to write so may stop here for the Old Testament scriptures and maybe post some more latter.

    ..............

    NEW TESTAMENT (not definitive)

    IF” (Greek) *G1437; אםἐάν; ean; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty : - before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever)., See G3361.

    God's forgiveness is conditional...

    I JOHN 1:9 [9], IF (conditional) we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    MATTHEW 6:14-15 [14], For IF (conditional) you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: [15], But IF (conditional) you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

    Being a disciple we must follow what Jesus says...

    MATTHEW 16:24 Then said Jesus to his disciples, IF (conditional) any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

    Conditons for inheriting eternal life...

    MATTHEW 19:16-19 [16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I DO, that I may have eternal life? [17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF (conditional) you will enter into life, keep the commandments. [18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, [19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

    JOHN 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: IF (conditional) any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

    JOHN 8:24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for IF (conditional) you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

    JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF (conditional) you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    JOHN 8:39 They answered and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said to them, IF you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

    JOHN 8:51 Truly, truly, I say to you, IF (conditional) a man keeps my saying, he shall never see death.

    God only hears those who are following His Word...

    JOHN 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but IF (conditional) any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears.

    JOHN 14:15 IF (conditional) you love me, keep my commandments.

    JOHN 15:10 IF (conditional) you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

    JOHN 15:14 You are my friends, IF (conditional) you do whatever I command you.

    JOHN 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, IF (conditional) a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our stay with him.

    JOHN 15:6-7 [6], IF (conditional) a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7], IF (conditional) you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.

    What does it mean to believe in God? Let's look at this in the next post...
     
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BELIEVE IN GOD?

    Applications to believe and not to believe

    G4102
    Πίστις; pistis word use; OF; TO; THE; ASSURANCE; BELIEF; FEDELITY; From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence ; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

    G4100 πιστεύω; word use is to BELIEVE; TRUST; DO NOT BELIEVE; DID NOT; COMMITTED; Greek word meaning pisteuō From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit ; by implication to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

    ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 3:15-16 (SBLGNT)
    15 ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ἐν αὐτῷ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον. 16 Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλὰ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.

    To believe translated here is in the present tense verb of doing belief and can be translated; as BELIEVE (present tense), CONTINUING TO BELIEVE AND ACTIVELY BELIEVING

    John 3:15-16 (YLT)15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

    The continuing nature of saving faith is underscored by the use of the present tense of the Greek verb pisteuō (“believe”) throughout the gospel of John (cf. 3:15-18, 36; 5:24; 6:35, 40; 7:38; 11:25-26; 12:44, 46; 20:31; also Acts 10:43; 13:39; Romans 1:16; 3:22; 4:5; 9:33; 10:4, 10-11). If believing were a one-time act, the Greek tense in those verses would be aorist.

    In fact, the most famous verse in the entire Bible uses a present tense verb that may be translated, “whoever continues believing in him” may have eternal life………….

    G4103 πιστός; pistos word use FAITHFUL; BELIEVING; (active faith present tense) From G3982; objectively trustworthy ; subjectively trustful: - believe (-ing, -r), faithful (-ly), sure, true.

    G544 ἀπειθέω; word use is to BELIEVE NOT; DO NOT BELIEVE; DO NOT OBEY; DISOBEDIENT; UNBELIEVING; OBEY NOT; Greek word meaning is apeitheō From G545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely): - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving.

    G543 ἀπείθεια; word use is UNBELIEF; DISOBEDIENCE Greek word meaning ἀπείθεια; apeitheia From G545; disbelief (obstinate and rebellious): - disobedience, unbelief.

    G570 ἀπιστία; word use use is UNBELIEF; DISOBEDIENCE Greek word meaning ἀπιστία; G570 apistia; From G571; faithlessness, that is, (negatively) disbelief (want of Christian faith), or (positively) unfaithfulness (disobedience): - unbelief.

    G545 ἀπειθής; word use is to be DISOBEDIENT Greek word meaning G545 ἀπειθής; apeithēs From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3982; unpersuadable, that is, contumacious: - disobedient.

    G571 ἄπιστος; word use means to be FAITHLESS; UNBELIEVERS; BELIEVES NOT; UNBELIEVING; THEM THAT DO NOT BELIEVE; Greek word meaning ἄπιστος; Apistos; From G1 (as a negative particle) and G4103; (actively) disbelieving, that is, without Christian faith (specifically a heathen); (passively) untrustworthy (person), or incredible (thing): - that believeth not, faithless, incredible thing, infidel, unbeliever (-ing).

    .............

    ANSWER
    : To BELIEVE God means to rely upon God's Word to do what it says it will do and and follow what God say!

    Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you. I pray you will accept this post and it's correction to you in the Spirit it was given (love) and it may bless you to have a closer walk with JESUS.,

    God bless
     
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    WRONG!

    Sorry brother your trying to argue here a false gospel and that we do not have to believe and follow Gods Word in order to receive eternal life. The false teaching of "once saved always saved" is a false gospel that has it's origin from the father of lies first proclaimed in the garden of Eden to Eve where the devil said you can break God's commandments (sin) and not surely die *GENESIS 3:1-5. All the scriptures you have provided in your post do not support your claims as they are to those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word not to those who do not believe and do not follow God's Word and also not to those who BELIEVED and followed God's Word yesterday and no longer believe and follow God's Word today *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-31.

    Now let's look at more scripture in the next post...
     
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL ON?

    FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4,

    REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 and

    CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 in the NEW COVENANT, are all requirements for the hope of salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13.

    GRIEVING OR QUENCHING THE HOLY SPIRIT

    We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

    According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

    According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

    ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

    All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before God and can lose their salvation unless they REPENT and BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.* HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10; GALATIANS 5:19-21; EPHESIANS 5:6; COLOSSIANS 3:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; TITUS 2:11-12

    THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE AND CONTINUING IN THE FAITH

    There are God's Word showing that we can have the assurance of salvation today as long as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word always in the "present tense" (now) and is why it is written we have the hope of eternal life now as we believe and follow God's Word...

    TITUS 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    COLOSSIANS 1:22-23 [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..

    TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    However, it is only those who ENDURE temptation to the END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word that receive eternal life.....

    MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

    MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

    HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

    HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

    JAMES 1:12 [12], Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

    God's Word is full of warnings not to depart the faith and all these things are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world have come.

    2 PETER 3:9 [9], The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    ................

    Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you. I pray you will accept this post and it's correction to you in the Spirit it was given (love) and it may bless you to have a closer walk with JESUS.,

    God bless
     
  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    WRONG!

    Now brother you have not provided a single scripture here that says we cannot choose to believe and follow God's Word. We do indeed have a corrupt nature but God has given us a free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word or not believe and follow God's Word. While is it God's Work to change the heart, God does not change our heart unless we believe His Word. It is the Spirit the quickeneth the flesh profits nothing the Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *JOHN 6:63. It is the Word of God that is given us from heaven. All we can do is to choose to believe or not believe God's Word and it is this very Word that brings faith and draws us to JESUS (the living Word of God) *ROMANS 10:17.

    SOME INTERESTING SCRIPTURES ON FREE WILL

    PHILEMON 1:14 (different translations)

    (ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, BUT ONE OF FREE WILL.

    (ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, BUT BY THE FREE WILL

    (GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me OUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL WITHOUT FEELING FORCED TO DO IT

    (csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL

    (LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN FREE WILL

    (MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND NOT OF COMPULSION.

    (NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion BUT OF FREE WILL. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.

    (NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (NASB95)14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (TEV)14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. So I will not do anything unless you agree.

    (ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    and you can add both the NEB and the REB

    CT 14but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    NENT 14but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, BUT ACCORDING TO FREE WILL..

    (NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    ............

    ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

    Free will we see is not a matter of necessity
    Free will is a will not under compulsion
    Free will is consensual
    Free will is a will not forced

    ............

    Let's look at the alternate translations in the next post and also look at the whole scripture context in the next post and we will see that whatever translation we use we still get the same meaning of the scripture in regards to man having free will!
     
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