Regeneration: Begotten By God

You are contradicting yourself. They give their children choices but say obey or be punished?????????

 

God gave Adam the ability to choose. Adam chose evil. Man will always choose to rebel against God unless God as the prophet Ezekiel writes:

Ezekiel 11:19. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 36:26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel figuratively describes what GOD the Holy Spirit does in Regeneration. He gives the person a new heart, a new disposition. Whereas the unregenerate man has no desire to know GOD the Regenerate man does.

 

In Ephesians 1:3-6 the Apostle Paul writes the following:

3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

We are told that:

1. GOD the Father chose us in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.

2. GOD the Father predestinated us to be adopted as HIS children by Jesus Christ.

According to Thayer the Greek word translated predestinate means:

1) to predetermine, decide beforehand
2) in the NT of God decreeing from eternity
3) to foreordain, appoint beforehand

3. GOD the Father made us accepted in the beloved.

I understand that all those who hold the doctrine of Freewillism will say that these Scripture apply to those whom GOD knew beforehand would become believers but how do you justify such a position from the text of the passage quoted.

 

You cannot show foreknowledge from these specific verses, but they are shown elsewhere many times.

1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

This verse says we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God. You can't get around that.

And there are examples shown in scripture if you will see it and accept it.

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Even before Philip went to find his brother Nathaniel, Jesus said he saw him. This is God's foreknowledge. And notice Nathaniel's question, "Whence knowest thou me?". There you go right there. Nathaniel recognized that Jesus knew him. And it was after Jesus spoke to Nathaniel that Nathaniel believed that Jesus was the Son of God, the promised King of Israel the Jews had waited for.

That is an example of foreknowledge if you will accept it. There is more, it is also shown in the parable of the prodigal son.

Luke 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.


Notice in verse 12 this son asked for his inheritance. You receive an inheritance when your father is dead. This shows this son was lost in sin, he was separated from his father. This is also represented by the fact he went to a far country. There is the separation that death means.

Notice very carefully when the son repented and started home that his father saw him in verse 20. This is God's foreknowledge. Even before his son actually came to him, his father saw him when he was still a great way off. He was still a sinner at this point, he was filthy from his sin. He was not saved until he actually came to his father and his father put his ring on his finger (sonship), and he was clothed with the "best robe" which represents the righteousness of Christ imputed to those who believe. So this parable shows the unregenerate can repent and come in faith to the Father.

This is another picture of God's foreknowledge in that he sees who will repent and come to Christ if you will accept it.

 

Actually, Hershel Hobbs and other Southern Baptist non-Calvinistic theologians don't really take this approach, from what I can remember.

Instead, they explain that God has chosen or predetermined what will happen to "us" (believers.) He has chosen for us to become holy and without blame and to be adopted as sons.

The illustration, if I'm remembering correctly, that Hobbs uses is that of an airplane. The pilot may predetermine the destination of those passengers without necessarily predetermining who will get on the plane.

In the same way, God has predetermined that "us" (the church) will become holy and blameless and we will be adopted. Both of which we as believers are still eagerly awaiting in the glorification process. We KNOW it will happen to us because God has predetermined that "WE" who have been "sealed by the Holy Spirit through faith" (also in Eph 1) will be made holy and adopted. Nothing in these passages talk about individual people being chosen to believe while all the rest of humanity is without hope. That doctrine must be read into this text.

 

Skan:

I am beginning to appreciate the way you are discussing these at this point, and your use of the word "we" to include Calvinists and Doctrine of Grace adherents among God's people.

 

Sure I believe that you are among "God's people." As I have stated, I once held to your views of soteriology and I really do understand how you come to believe that way. I had a relationship with Christ when I was a Calvinist and I still do now that I'm not one. Despite what it may appear at times in these discussions, I actually have a lot of respect for Calvinistic scholars. Piper is one of my favorite authors, believe it or not. I respect the emphasis on God's glory and the fact that most Calvinists are thinkers, as apposed to many Christian's in today's churches who never even broach difficult subjects in scripture. I honestly just believe that Calvinists have made a simple hermeneutical error which has lead them to false conclusions.

 

And you haven't the foggiest idea what "foreknowledge" means!:tear::tear:

 

Instead of

you might try quoting and referencing.

 

Oh, I'm sorry professor. I forgot to refer to the syllabus for this debate forum. :rolleyes:


Simply put, point was made and avoided. Good debate strategy. :thumbs:

 

Great post!

I don't know why it is so difficult for these Calvinists to understand that God's election is based on His foreknowledge. It's right there in Scripture, but they just don't seem to be able to grasp it!

 

They grasp it, but they don't like it. They like to believe they are elect without having to repent and believe.

Non-Cals believe God sees beforehand who will repent and believe. So election is conditional. Election is "according" to foreknowledge.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Here is yet another verse showing God's foreknowledge. Jesus knew "from the beginning" who they were that believed not and who should betray him. Therefore he must also know who will believe.

Yes, God's foreknowledge is there in scripture if a person has eyes to see it. But some folks don't want to see it.

 

The reason is simple: Those, such as yourself, who believe in God seeing who would believe and electing them based on human choice completely misunderstand the meaning of the word "foreknow." That simple and common misunderstanding has sent your theology on a completely different tack.

Paul uses the word in Romans 8 and 11 and it means chose.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

It is a good thing we have those superior people like you to tell us the mind of God. I guess God predestined that those, like you, are just better and more deserving that the rest of us.

BTW, how do you know that God didn't elect according to his foreknowledge?

 

Question for Calvinistic/Reformed believers:

Why does interpreting the word "foreknown" to be "intimate knowledge" in anyway dismiss the argument that God foreknows the choices of man and then chooses them based upon that knowledge?

After all, those saved, either by an irresistible call or their own "free will," are fully and completely foreknown intimately by God since God is not bound by time. God will spend an eternity with all believers (whether saved Calvinistically or freely) and thus God would perfectly know them, right?

So, why does this definition of foreknowledge (which certainly includes much more than mere foresight) somehow negates the argument that his choice might be contingent upon something he knows beforehand about that individual?

 

You, like Winman, do not understand what is meant by the foreknowledge of GOD. The meaning of "foreknowledge" or "foreknew" has been explained numerous times on this Forum by those who read the Greek. The truth is that GOD knows those whom HE has chosen to Salvation in Jesus Christ. You do understand what know means don't you?

 

Wow. Now, that's a rather snotty response, now isn't it?

I don't know why you feel the need to answer in this way, but it is uncalled for and it is conduct unbecoming a Christian.

Blessings,

The Archangel

PS. I may answer your legitimate question(s) later.

 

Who on this Forum who believes in the Sovereign Grace of GOD has said that repentance and belief is not required for Salvation?

I have posted the following a number of times on this Forum. Once more won't hurt. It should be noted that other than Regeneration, followed by Effectual Call, Conversion, and Glorification I make no claim as to the chronology of the different events.

Salvation, A Multifaceted Gem

Salvation, the blessing of grace, is that work of the Triune God by which He eternally redeems and reconciles to Himself those chosen in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4], freeing them from bondage to sin and His holy wrath. That salvation is purchased by the blood of the Incarnate Son [Romans 5: 9; Hebrews 9: 14; 1 Peter 1: 18; 1 John 1: 7; Revelation 1: 5; Revelation 7: 14], the blood of the everlasting covenant [Matthew 26: 28; Hebrews 13: 20], and is made effective in the life of the elect by the Holy Spirit through union with Jesus Christ. Salvation from beginning to end is entirely by the Sovereign Grace of the Triune God.

Salvation, the blessing of grace, is a once for all time occurrence in the life of the elect. However, as we see explicitly in Romans 8:28-30, and throughout Scripture, there are a number of events that are associated with salvation. In some of these man takes an active roll but in most of them he is entirely passive. If we consider salvation, this blessing of grace, as a multifaceted gem, we may better appreciate both the gift of salvation and the work of God, in particular God the Holy Spirit, in the salvation of those whom God the Father, before the foundation of the world, has chosen in Jesus Christ.


1. Regeneration

The initial event in salvation is regeneration, the theological term synonymous with ‘rebirth’ or ‘being born again’. Regeneration is solely the work of God the Holy Spirit whereby those who are spiritually dead in trespass and sin are made spiritual alive and are brought into union with Jesus Christ; they are saved [Ephesians 2:1-9]. Whereas the unregenerate person has no disposition, interest, or desire for the things of God the regenerate person is a new creation and is now receptive to the ‘effectual call’ of the Holy Spirit.


2. Union with Jesus Christ

Union with Jesus Christ is an integral part, a condition, of God’s electing grace and this union is solely the work of God the Holy Spirit. Martyn Lloyd-Jones in his book God the Holy Spirit notes that “our spiritual life is drawn directly from Jesus Christ. We are sustained by Him through the indwelling Holy Spirit.” Furthermore, it is through this union that all the blessings of salvation are bestowed upon the “true believer” [Ephesisns 1:3,4; 2:4-7. Jesus Christ introduces us to this union in John 14:19, 20 and John 17:22, 23. As to the nature of our union with Jesus Christ we must not think of it as involving a kind of confusion of persons. Neither does it mean that our being, our person hood, becomes merged or lost in the being of our Lord. Such is the belief of the certain eastern religions.


3. Effectual Calling

Insofar as man himself is aware, the initial event in salvation is the effectual calling of the Holy Spirit. It is an observable fact that not all who hear the Gospel accept it and come to salvation. Some do and some do not. The Apostle Paul tells us why in 1 Corinthians 2:14, KJV. Jesus Christ vividly demonstrate this difference between the effect of the gospel call on the unregenerate man and the regenerate man in the parable of the sower [Matthew 13:3-9, 18-23].


4. Conversion

Conversion is the result of conscious act of a regenerate person in which he responds to the effectual call and turns to God in faith and repentance. Conversion is in reality an acknowledgment that one has experienced regeneration, justification, adoption, and pardon. As the believer grows in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ [2 Peter 3:18] he will come to more fully understand these graces and, though they are freely bestowed, the extent of the actual cost. It is important to realize that conversion is a personal transaction between God and man. Therefore, since no two people are alike we should not expect that they will have the same conversion experience.


5. Saving Faith

Saving faith is an essential aspect of conversion and, though exercised by man, is itself a gift of God [Ephesians 2:8,9] The prophet Habakkuk who writes [2: 4b]: the just shall live by his faith, is echoed by the Apostle Paul in that great faith chapter of the New Testament, Hebrews 11, which clearly demonstrates that faith is, in fact, a way of life.


6. Repentance

Like faith repentance is also an essential aspect of conversion. Jesus Christ teaches:

Luke 13:3, [1769 KJV]
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

However, the repentance associated with conversion must be proceeded by faith, that is, a person cannot truly repent of his sins against God until he believes that he has sinned against God. Can anyone truly be sorry for sin against God unless he first believes in God and believes that he has sinned against God? The Apostle Paul demonstrates the difference between Godly sorrow and worldly sorrow in 2 Corinthians 7:10. If salvation is completely by grace then repentance must also be the gift of God. Faith and repentance are twin graces.


7. Pardon

A righteous God cannot overlook sin for the wages of sin is death [Romans 6.23]. Man is not a sinner because he sins but man sins because he is a sinner. As such he is subject to the wrath of God [Romans 5:12, Romans 1:18]. The penalty for sin could be paid only by the death of one who was without sin, Jesus Christ [1 Peter 3:18, 1 Peter 2:24, Philippians 2:8, Romans 8:3]. All who exercise God given repentance obtain forgiveness through Jesus Christ. Forgiveness implies deliverance from the penalty of sin. It is Jesus Christ who turns us from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God [Acts 26: 18] so that He can deliver us from the wrath to come [1 Thessalonians 1:10].


8. Justification

Justification is a judicial act whereby the unjust sinner is declared righteous in the sight of a just and holy God. John Dagg in his Manuel of Theology [page 265] notes that justification is a higher blessing of grace than pardon. Pardon frees from the penalty that follows sin, justification frees us from the guilt of sin. Justification is by faith alone [Romans 5:1] and that faith itself is the gift of God [Ephesians 2:8,9]. Justification, therefore, is only by the grace of God as the Apostle Paul demonstrates in his letter to the Saints at Rome [Romans 3:24-27]. Although justification is an act of God’s grace it is not at the expense of the righteousness of God as is demonstrated in the above Scripture. A righteous God cannot overlook sin for the wages of sin is death [Romans 6.23].


9. Adoption

God adopts as sons all who believe in Jesus Christ [Galatians 3:26, 1 John 3:1, Romans 8:16,17]. Although we are called the sons of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ, because of our union with Jesus Christ, this does not mean that we occupy the same position relative to God the Father as Jesus Christ [John 10:30-33, Colossians 2:9, Philippians 2:5-10]. When God the Son took upon Himself the form of man He laid aside His Glory but not His Deity. Though we are called the sons of God by adoption, as noted earlier [Section 2.3.2.1], we will never be divine.

Continued in next Post!

 

Continued from preceding Post!

Salvation, A Multifaceted Gem

Salvation, the blessing of grace, is that work of the Triune God by which He eternally redeems and reconciles to Himself those chosen in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4], freeing them from bondage to sin and His holy wrath. That salvation is purchased by the blood of the Incarnate Son [Romans 5: 9; Hebrews 9: 14; 1 Peter 1: 18; 1 John 1: 7; Revelation 1: 5; Revelation 7: 14], the blood of the everlasting covenant [Matthew 26: 28; Hebrews 13: 20], and is made effective in the life of the elect by the Holy Spirit through union with Jesus Christ. Salvation from beginning to end is entirely by the Sovereign Grace of the Triune God.

Salvation, the blessing of grace, is a once for all time occurrence in the life of the elect. However, as we see explicitly in Romans 8:28-30, and throughout Scripture, there are a number of events that are associated with salvation. In some of these man takes an active roll but in most of them he is entirely passive. If we consider salvation, this blessing of grace, as a multifaceted gem, we may better appreciate both the gift of salvation and the work of God, in particular God the Holy Spirit, in the salvation of those whom God the Father, before the foundation of the world, has chosen in Jesus Christ.

10. Sanctification

The Holy Spirit continues to sanctify those whom He has regenerated and finally prepares them fully for the service and enjoyment of life in the presence of God. Sanctification has two aspects, positional and progressive. In each case the Holy Spirit is the instrument of sanctification. Positional sanctification, being set apart for God, occurs with regeneration. Progressive sanctification occurs as the believer grows in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ [2 Peter 3:18]. Both positional sanctification and progressive sanctification are indicated in the prayer of Jesus Christ for His Church [John 17:15-17]. Progressive sanctification can only occur when the believer is obedient. Just as the life of Abraham shows that obedience flows from faith so the New Testament teaches that obedience is a corollary or outgrowth of faith.


11. Perseverance or Security of the True Believer

The doctrine of the ‘Perseverance of the Saints’ or the ‘Security of the True Believer’ is one that is cherished by most Baptists. [Freewill Baptists believe that a true believer can loose their salvation.] Only the Baptists and Presbyterians among all denominations hold to a strict doctrine of the ‘Perseverance of the Saints’ or the ‘Security of the Believer’. I am not sure which term most accurately expresses the doctrine. It is certain that Saints will not be able to persevere without the active support of God. The statement from the 1677 [or 1689] Baptist Confession of Faith [Lumpkin, Baptist Confessions of Faith, page 272] expresses both thoughts as shown in the following excerpt:

Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and calling of God are without repentance, (whence He still begets and nourishish them in Faith, Repentance, Love, Joy, Hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality).

Those whom God has accepted in the Beloved and has effectually called and sanctified by His spirit, and given the precious faith of His elect, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace but they will certainly persevere in that state until the end and be eternally saved.

This is because the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [He will never change His mind.] and therefore He continues to beget [create] and nourish them in faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit which lead to immortality.


12. Assurance of Salvation

There is a trite expression that is frequently used by evangelists: If you are only 99% sure of your salvation you are 100% lost. This statement is totally false and without any basis in Scripture. It is simply a ploy used by evangelists to frighten Christians and increase the number of ‘conversions’ that result from their preaching. However, having said that, the question of utmost importance to the believe is: How can I be sure that I am truly saved for all eternity? This matter of assurance of salvation, more than any other facet on the gem of salvation, does not lend itself very readily to purely doctrinal answers, that is objective answers. The question of the assurance of our salvation is one that, to use a slang expression, “hits us where we live” and therefore also requires subjective answers.

If we do not believe that True Believer’s are kept by the power of God and will persevere to the end it is doubtful that we can ever have any assurance of our salvation. Therefore, every passage of Scripture that demonstrates the security of the believer should provide the believer assurance of that security. The first basis for assurance is the testimony of the Word of God. The second basis for assurance of salvation is subjective. The Apostle John tells us [1 John 5:10]: He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself. That withess is the indwelling Holy Spirit


13. Glorification

God will bring to glory those He has saved through the sacrifice of His Son. Glorification is the final facet on the gem of salvation. Redemption is complete, the sin struggle is over. We who are heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ [Romans 8:17] will be like Him for we will see Him as He is [1 John 3:2].

The Lord is pleased to reveal to the Apostle John and His Church in the Book of Revelation a glimpse of the glory that awaits them when redemption is complete. We see in Chapters 4 and 5 through the eyes of the Apostle the joy unspeakable and full of glory of those in the presence of the Triune Godhead. In Revelation 7 we are given preliminary view, a brief picture of the joy in the presence of God for those who have been accepted in the beloved [Ephesians 1:6].

 

And if God's order and definitions are different than what you have posted, will you still be saved? Not questioning your salvation. Just wondering.