How am I " arguing against myself"? Never did I say that the KJV translators had the original autographs. If they did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. :)
I agree, it puts the probability high. No evidence here is really "absolute proof" of the original reading.And why was that? It wasn't because they were rejected. S wasn't discovered till the 1800's. V was kept by the Catholics and wans't allowed to be used. (disagreed with the Vulgate which was the standard)again, you are confusing the TR with manuscripts used by Erasmus.
You have to be kidding. How is this even relevant to what I said? Did I say that the V & S didn't disagree?
What about my statement was false?
I saidWhat about that was false?
Rejection of sinaiticus and Vaticanus? TR and the original autographs
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by jbh28, Jul 1, 2010.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
Seems you have it covered well. The problem with the TR people is that they often confuse the TR with the Byzantine text which wasn't a complete copy. Also it had been "smoothed" for liturgical use during the Byzantine Empire. So since its language was modified to smooth its harshness or difficult reading we find that the text to begin with is corrupted.
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Expected "support" - look at the author (Burgon) who was NOT an "only" but believed in the primacy of the AV's Greek text (not any longer extant)
And we ALL know that if a document contains "Esdras, Tobit, Judith, I and IV Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus" like the Sinaiaticus it must be all bad.
Slightly mocking your words. ;) -
Wow, Dr. Bob supports the Sinaiticus. What a surprise, I am truly shocked.
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Of course, to have any other is absurd. For 1500 years (and some 2000) copies of copies of copies of copies - no two alike; all with differences - were used in the Greek-speaking churches of the Eastern Orthodox!! If they didn't have more copies surviving, it would be unbelievable.
The Western European Church shifted from Greek to Latin and then to national languages. Apart from a few Greek copies in libraries (Vaticanus) or desert monasteries (sinaiaticus) there would be few in the Wetern family of documents. But lots of Latin!!
Thank God, we don't judge by weight or copies of copies of copies of copies, each with errors. More "weight" (pun intended) is given to the manuscripts closest to the original, not ones written a thousand years later. -
Jonathan C. Borland -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Here is a very interesting article that shows that believing a text is more accurate because it is older is a flawed assumption. The author of this article is not KJVO.
From Maurice Robinson's
New Testament Textual Criticism: The Case for Byzantine Priority
http://rosetta.reltech.org/TC/vol06/Robinson2001.html -
Later manuscript discoveries found over 150 distinctive Byzantine readings which predated the so-called Lucian Recension that proved the theory to be untenable. Facts tend to be uncomfortable things, don't they? :) -
Westcott & Hort's theory that the Byzantine Textform is late and derivative does not agree with the best recently available evidence.
No Byzantine reading should be dismissed simply because it is Byzantine. The latest evidence suggests there is a possibility that the Byzantine reading is early, and that it preserves the original text.
To honestly evaluate readings without pre-judging the Byzantine textform to be the result of a late recension, and without a knee-jerk tendency to favor the agreement of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus as virtually infallible, a better understanding of the history of textual transmission can be had. In many cases, this approach yields results which oppose the readings adopted in the modern Critical Text and support the originality of readings in the Majority/Byzantine Text. -
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Now you just need to make a choice. -
I have no problem with my faith in God's promise to preserve His word, and that faith does not have a problem with various translations. My faith lies in God Himself and not in what men have put to paper. His word endures in the original languages, translations in a myriad of other languages, and in quite a few English translations. He is not limited to one repository for His word in any language.
Maybe if you stopped trying to put God in a box you would see that.
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