Act 3:16
“And on the basis of faith in His name, it is the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all.
Phl 3:9
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
Based on Romans 4:23-25 and Romans 5:1, we see God's gracious and benevolent actions are taken on the basis of our faith being credited.
Romans 5:1
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, May 26, 2022.
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Romans 5:1 (Interpretive translation) As a result of God crediting our faith, having been justified on the basis of our credited faith, we have peace with God by the meritorious action of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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If God had not given you His gracious gift of faith, you would be a dead man walking.
God credits faith purely because it is his faith, which he gave you to believe. His gifted faith is righteous. Your man filled attempt at faith is filthy and empty of God's power.
Until you credit God with giving you your faith, you will be in error. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Rom 1:20 tells us that sinful man, that’s all of us, really have no excuse for not knowing their is a God. Now according to what you have posted God has to give a person the gift of faith so they can believe. I have to conclude that you get this idea from your reading of Eph 2:8.
Now we know that God would like all people to come to faith 1Ti 2:4 and because God loved us He sent the Son to be the propitiation for our sins 1Jn 4:10 and that the Son gave Himself as a ransom for all 1Ti 2:6 and by that is meant the whole world 1Jn 2:2.
When you consider that we are all sinners and according to you the only way a person can have faith is if God gives it to them, then all those that God does not give faith actually do have a real excuse. Those that are in hell never had a chance to be saved. Does that seem like the God who is love 1Jn 4:16?
God does not give us His faith so as to believe but He does give us the ability to exercise our faith so as to believe.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
Rom 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Now in case you are going to say that the gospel is just foolishness to the lost 1Co 1:18. Let me remind you that if God is the one that gives faith to believe as you say then we are back to the same problem. It is not that they would not believe it is that they could not believe, according to you. -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Can you please explain Romans 12:3 in light of II Thess 3:2?
One (Romans 12:3) say God has all given us the faith to believe the Gospel while II Thess 3:2 says “not all have faith”
how can that be?
those 2 verses are diametrically opposed to each other in what you teach
we believe that God has given faith to the elect only especially since Romans was written to the Church at Rome and that is whom Paul is addressing -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I honestly thought that it was truly impossible to butcher that passage (Romans 5:1), but again, Van proved me wrong
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Thanks for showing us how your mind twists things up. Your post here is a perfect example of how humanism works.
Humans do not go to hell only for not believing. They go to hell primarily for having rebelled and broken God's moral law. Being found guilty of breaking God's moral law, they are sent to hell. This is just and loving. You seem to reject this, however.
Here is your humanism, perfectly articulated to us all. Here you lift up man upon the throne and exalt him. "All hail man" might be your motto.
Silverhair, you and I are secondary in salvation, but you keep fighting to make yourself primary in your salvation. -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Van
our opinions about how to interpret scripture are all irrelevant Whether it’s me, Austin, You or whomever.
rule #2 in hermeneutics is that Scripture only has 1 meaning and only 1 meaning, so these individualized meanings of yours are irrelevant and in most cases borderline heretical.
the Bible has been around 2,000 yrs and there is nothing that is truly new that can be said about it Rule #3 is that Scripture is clear in what it is conveying to mankind
some of your interpretations are of your own imagination and quite honestly it makes you look very bad to those who are even remotely skilled in the Word of God
also your use and knowledge of Koine Greek has also been proven to be quite deficient even in this current thread
You have been corrected over and over, yet continue anyways.
I am seriously only trying to help you out my friend.
your novel ideas and interpretations do much to harm the faith, please spend a lot of time learning from others before you go to correcting the original Greek and provide interpretations which are only serving to undermine the Word of God
please stop -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Now when we look at Rom 12:3 we see the phrase “God has dealt to each one a measure of faith”. You stated that they are “diametrically opposed to each other in what you teach” but is this view correct?
Once again we have to look to context to inform us. We see from Rom 12:1 that Paul is writing to the brethren {believers}. When you study the context Rom 12:3-8 we see that Paul is not speaking of salvation but rather of service. The expression “measure of faith” refers to the spiritual capacity and/or power given to each member of the body to carry out his or her function in and for the building up of the body. We see this stated clearly, by Paul, in 1Co 12:7-11 in speaking of the gifts of the Spirit.
You stated “we believe that God has given faith to the elect only”. What is your justification for that view? How does that view comport with:
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
We can see in vs 22 that while the righteousness of God is offered to all it is only of benefit to those that believe. God does not give us His faith so as to believe but He does give us the ability to exercise our faith so as to believe. -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
Once again you overlook the fact we are all hell bound sinners. So it is not that we are different from those in hell. The reason they are there is because, according to your view, God did not give them faith so as to be saved. Can anyone keep God’s moral law so that they earn the right to be in heaven, NO. So the only difference is faith. Since by your view God has to give them faith, and He did not do so, then those that are in hell are there for that reason.
“God does not give us His faith so as to believe but He does give us the ability to exercise our faith so as to believe.” Your struggle with this just points out your theological error. The gospel of Christ, is the power of God to salvation and we are told that faith comes by hearing and believing the gospel message. Why do you deny this?
I notice that again you say I ignore context but you never show where that is so. Show me where context disagrees with what I have posted.
Faith in the Son is the condition that God has made. If man has to wait for God to give him this faith, as you posit, then those that do not get this faith can not be saved can they. So those in hell can rightly say to God, you never gave me faith so as to be saved. This is the error that your theology presents. -
Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Useless drivel that makes no sense -
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Marooncat79 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Not at all
you need to learn to read and not misrepresent what people say
I called your interpretation useless drivel that makes no sense
peace to you -
Silverhair Well-Known Member
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Alan Gross Well-Known Member
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Alan Gross Well-Known Member
Faith has an object. The soul, including Abraham's must be GIVEN Faith IN The Righteousness of Jesus.
THAT Faith IN Jesus Righteousness was Credited, Given, Imputed to Abraham. -
Alan Gross Well-Known Member
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Alan Gross Well-Known Member
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