Featured Romans 6.....is there water baptism in the passage, or Spirit baptism ..primarily?

This is not true.
Why did Paul say in 1Cor.15:31, "I die daily?"
Every day he put his body to death. He crucified himself every day.

Why did Jesus say: "If man shall come after me let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me.
Again, every day his disciples were to crucify themselves. It was daily.

The key to understanding the Scriptures is to understand that much of it is written in imagery. I am not suggesting we interpret it allegorically, far from it. But we need to recognize the metaphors, similes, and other imagery that is used.
Why a cross? The cross was the symbol for execution. Christ died on a cross as did two thieves. Every criminal was put to death that way. To take up one's cross was to die to the world, to die to self. OTOH, it was to submit to Christ. If I submit to him I will be dead to the world. Obviously death does not mean a literal death. It is used in a figurative sense. Most of the time "death" means separation. When I live for Christ I am separated from sin and the world. I must conscientiously do this every day.

In reference to Romans 6, as was previously mentioned, the entire chapter ought to be taken into context for a full understanding.
Verse 1 and 2 are an answer to the antinomianism expressed at the end of chapter five:
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
--We will not continue in sin. Why? We are dead to sin. Dead to sin, how? We must make the conscious decision every day to be dead to sin. It would be wonderful if victory were so automatic, so complete that (being dead), I didn't have to do anything. Since I am automatically dead to sin (as you suggest), I ought to be sinless. But that is not true.
Verse 11--I reckon myself to be dead to sin. The word reckon infers something I must do. It is not automatic.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
--Clearly this is the beginning of a picture of water baptism. The word baptism ALWAYS means "immerse." If we are united with Christ we are immersed into his death (a picture). "Into" means "in relation to" and speaks of the ordinance of water baptism.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Baptism has two pictures here:
The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
As he died, so we died.
As he was buried, so we were buried (in water).
As he arose, so we arose (out of the water) [Hopefully the pastor didn't leave you under ]

When he died he took upon himself the burden of our sin, paid the penalty in full.
When we "died" we died in picture only, turning our back on the world and its sin, and our rebelliousness to God.
When he was buried, it was proof that he was dead.
When we were buried (in water) it is evidence that we indeed are dead to our old life in sin.
When he arose from the dead he conquered sin; he was victorious.
When we arose (from water), it was to a new life in Christ (symbolically--to what took place at salvation.).

Death means separation.
The wages of sin is death. The unsaved will be eternally separated from God.
When we die we separate ourselves from sin. It is a conscious effort to be made every day.

I like what Annsi said in another thread that really makes a practical application in this.
She said: When one of those Victoria Secret commercials comes on the TV my husband quickly turns to me, kisses me and says, "I love you." He doesn't want the temptation.
That is being dead to sin. It is the practice of it. It must be practiced every day. It does not come automatically. If it was you would be sinless.
You do have an old nature. You do struggle with it. We all do. It is not dead; it is very much alive.

 

The elect were immersed into Christ prior to being dunked.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup:

 

Yes, and baptism (described in Romans 6:3-5) is a picture of that.

 

:thumbsup: Prior to the cross also.

 

There is no such thing as baptism in the spirit for individuals before or after the cross.

1. The baptism in the Spirit promised by the Baptist (Mt. 3:11) and Christ (Acts 1:5) is DATED and did not precede the cross or Pentecost and so if you are referring this kind of baptism you are wrong.

2. The baptism in the Spirit promised by the Baptist (Mt. 3:11) and Christ (Acts 1:5; 2:38) is for those PREVIOUSLY water baptized, and so if you are referring to that kind of baptism you are wrong.

4. Regeneration occurred prior to the cross and Pentecost (Jn. 3) and so if you are referring to the promised baptism in the Spirit which did not occur prior to the cross or Penteocst you are wrong.

5. Romans 6:4-6 has nothing to do with any kind of baptism in the Spirit but with positional justification and personal regeneration which are both expressed in water baptism by pictorial identification with Christ.

 

When a person is "crucified" they DIE!
Paul testifies in 1Cor.15:31, "I die daily."

Paul said "I die daily."
Jesus said: "Take up your cross daily," i.e. crucify yourself daily.

You need to read a book.

The Crucified Life: How To Live Out A Deeper Christian Experience
by A.W. Tozer.
It can be purchased at Amazon.

 

Questions

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized (by the gift of the HS) into Jesus Christ were baptized (by the gift of the HS) into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism (by the gift of the HS) into death:

Can that be understood as > Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death worketh in us, but life in you. 2 Cor 4:10-12 V13 We having the same spirit of faith (The gift of the HS) And why did we receive the Spirit. Same verse 13 (from Psalms 116:10 which I believe to be speaking of the Christ and not David just as in Acts 2:30) according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken.

What did the Christ believe? Ps 116:7-9 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.



OR in other words--- Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. Acts 30,31

Therefore Paul could say I die daily 2 Cor 4:14 we also believe, and therefore speak; By the baptism of the Spirit. 2 Cor 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. Romans 6:5,8 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

The baptism of the Christ?

But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.


One more question for the Greek, geeks for I know, no Greek. Can the aorist tense have the understanding of something past tense for one which is future tense for another?

In other words when we read something in the aorist that we apply to our selves can it be as past tense for Christ applied to us in the future?

 

So they were saved before getting saved?

Were reconciled back to God before getting saved by Him?

 

because we have been crucified in Him, we are right with Him by being in him, that is why we can have freedom over the flesh, as it is no longer our 'natural state", but still must make a decision to keep him from rearing his head up again!

 

The old man is very much alive.
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

"But with the flesh I serve the law of sin." That is the old man.
Paul didn't claim 100% victory over that old man. It was a day by day battle. That battle is described in detail from verse 14 to 25.