Romney Defends Shift on Issues

[PastorSBC1303]

I remember when you supported the Republicans, then it was the Constitution Party, now it's back to the Republicans I guess. Regardless, there is a good possibility that between now and election time, you will change two or three more times.

:laugh: Now this is true.

I am just not sure about Romney yet, but I am trying to keep an open mind.

 

[KenH]

Romney will not likely risk his standing in the Mormon church

1. If he were elected, it might give the Mormon church more status and credibility.

I think you are wrong. I would be very surprised if Mitt doesn't run.

So you didn't vote for George W. Bush then, correct, since his comments about Islam have given more status and credibility to Unitarian Universalism?

 

[KenH]

:laugh: Now this is true.

I ought to just run for president myself since some folks on this board don't like to stay on the subject we are debating and start debating about me instead. :laugh:

 

[KenH]

"While some seem intent on greeting the news of Romney's conversion with skepticism, history has shown that pro-life converts are often the most effective spokespeople for the movement. Governor Romney has already acted on his pro-life beliefs by vetoing embryonic stem cell research and access to emergency contraception, despite intense pressure from pro-abortion activists in Massachusetts. When Romney speaks of his commitment to promoting a culture of life, we can take him at his word because he's already proven his willingness and desire to act."

- www.evangelicalsformitt.org/front_page/a_compelling_story_of_a_prolif.php

 

[KenH]

This is fantastic news for conservative Christians! :thumbs:

Romney set for presidential announcement​

By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer, Sat Dec 23, 12:21 AM ET​

Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is making plans for his campaign for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination in two phases early next month, a top adviser told The Associated Press on Friday.

The Massachusetts chief executive is expected to file paperwork as early as Jan. 2 with the Federal Election Commission, establishing a presidential campaign committee and permitting himself to begin raising money for his race on the first business day of the new year. Romney will leave office on Jan. 4.

As soon as the week of Jan. 8, Romney will hold a ceremony to officially declare his candidacy, said the adviser, a top aide who spoke on condition of anonymity in advance of the official filing.

- more at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061223/ap_on_el_pr/romney2008

 

[Marcia]

I think you are wrong. I would be very surprised if Mitt doesn't run.

I didn't say he wouldn't run. I said he won't risk his standing in the Mormon Church by going against them. In other words, they are his final authority.

So you didn't vote for George W. Bush then, correct, since his comments about Islam have given more status and credibility to Unitarian Universalism

Right. I did not vote for Bush. However, I disagree that his comments on Islam have given more status to the Unitarians. Most people don't even know who the Unitarians are or what the Unitarians believe. People get them mixed up with Unity all the time or have no idea who the Unitarians are.

 

[KenH]

I said he won't risk his standing in the Mormon Church by going against them.

Considering that Mormons agree down the line with evangelical Christians on social issues I don't see that being a problem if he does.

Frankly, I don't buy the argument that Mitt has to consult with some Mormon guru about the policy decisions that he makes. No one has offered one scintilla of evidence that he has done so while serving as the governor of Massachusetts or that his father did so while serving as the governor of Michigan in the 1960s.

I've heard a bunch of theory and theology but I am interested in reality and cold hard political facts.

Also, I consider anyone who has come to Jesus in repentance and faith to be a Christian - regardless of theology. Theology never saved anyone and it never will. It seems sometimes that theology basically exists so that Christians can argue among themselves and call each other names and question each other's salvation.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I ought to just run for president myself since some folks on this board don't like to stay on the subject we are debating and start debating about me instead. :laugh:

:laugh: Yeah you should run, you can flip flop like the best of em :thumbsup:

 

[KenH]

:laugh: Yeah you should run, you can flip flop like the best of em :thumbsup:

What's the old saying? Something along the lines that the only mind that doesn't change is the one that is rusted shut. :laugh:

Some folks need a good spraying of WD40 on the ole noggin.

 

[Ulsterman]

No desire to get involved in US politics, but thought some of you might be interested in seeing how Romney is being presented to and by the foreign media. Personally I believe that the Mormon church would be cock-a-hoop over his election and capitalise on it for prosyletisation abroad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6203179.stm

 

[KenH]

Thanks, Ulsterman. Some very interesting quotes from the article:

"Or, put another way: Is the Republican party too bigoted to select a Mormon as its presidential candidate?

Until recently I would have said it probably was. But what I have learned about Mormons and what seems to be happening in America, leads me to wonder whether their time has come."

and

"The Church does not involve itself in politics."

 

[KenH]

Most people don't even know who the Unitarians are or what the Unitarians believe.

It doesn't matter as the practical effect of President Bush's comments are the still the same. So if anyone makes the claim that voting for Mitt will help to promote the Mormon church, then if he/she voted for President Bush he/she must shoulder the responsibility for helping to promote universalism.

Personally, I don't buy into such a claim - but anyone who does so needs to understand the ramifications for their own past votes if he/she does.

For example, has there been a huge surge in Methodist membership during the six years of having a Methodist as president?

I also wonder how many of those who say that they would never vote for a Mormon would also say the same thing about a black candidate or a woman candidate?

 

[Terry_Herrington]

I will support Mitt for as long as he is running for president. I guarantee it. If I change, then I will leave Baptist Board permanently. That's a promise.

I don't want you to leave the BB regardless of whether or not you change in your support for Romney. After all, it is a long way till the election, and we may both find out things about our potential candidates that changes both of our minds.

I support your right to change your mind, party affiliation, or any other thing you want. Only a fool would refuse to change their minds when circumstances change. Ironically, this is one of the main problems I have with President Bush.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

I ought to just run for president myself since some folks on this board don't like to stay on the subject we are debating and start debating about me instead. :laugh:

Now I will definitely support your candidacy immediately. I will withdraw my support for Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden and any other democrat.

But, if you actually get elected I want one night in the Lincoln bedroom. :laugh:

 

[KenH]

Actually, Terry, I would want you in the cabinet.

I would want to set up a new Department of Common Sense that would go through the Federal Register and eliminate any rule or regulation that the average American has no hope of understanding because it is written in bureaucratese. Think you would be up to the challenge?

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Actually, Terry, I would want you in the cabinet.

I would want to set up a new Department of Common Sense that would go through the Federal Register and eliminate any rule or regulation that the average American has no hope of understanding because it is written in bureaucratese. Think you would be up to the challenge?

Sounds good to me! :thumbs:

 

[Marcia]

Considering that Mormons agree down the line with evangelical Christians on social issues I don't see that being a problem if he does.

They don't agree exactly. They are more liberal on abortion, I believe.

Frankly, I don't buy the argument that Mitt has to consult with some Mormon guru about the policy decisions that he makes. No one has offered one scintilla of evidence that he has done so while serving as the governor of Massachusetts or that his father did so while serving as the governor of Michigan in the 1960s.

He may not consult on every decision but ultimately he cannot go against the Mormon Church. They are very active in kicking people out who go against them, especially publicly (this has happened to a few BYU profs). They are a cult, Ken, and you cannot question their authority if you are a Mormon, especially one with a high profile.

Also, I consider anyone who has come to Jesus in repentance and faith to be a Christian - regardless of theology. Theology never saved anyone and it never will. It seems sometimes that theology basically exists so that Christians can argue among themselves and call each other names and question each other's salvation

What??? There's nothing Christian about Mormonism except the terminology. Jesus is a spirit child of God and his wife, as we all on earth are, and as is Satan. The Mormon Jesus is hardly the Jesus of the Bible. Sure, no one is saved by theology, but if they have the wrong Jesus they are not saved! Theology just means the study of God. If it's the wrong God and the wrong Jesus, as is true of the Mormon faith, then you are sunk.

 

[Marcia]

It doesn't matter as the practical effect of President Bush's comments are the still the same. So if anyone makes the claim that voting for Mitt will help to promote the Mormon church, then if he/she voted for President Bush he/she must shoulder the responsibility for helping to promote universalism.

...For example, has there been a huge surge in Methodist membership during the six years of having a Methodist as president?

I also wonder how many of those who say that they would never vote for a Mormon would also say the same thing about a black candidate or a woman candidate?

Apples and oranges! A Mormon is not a Christian, period.

This has nothing to do with bigotry as it would for rejecting someone of a particular race. This has to do with not trusting someone belonging to a non-Christian cult and not willing to vote for that person.

Being conservative is not the ultimate criteria - other things matter even more than that to me.

 

[KenH]

If it's the wrong God and the wrong Jesus

I've read arguments, I mean debates, where Arminians and Calvinists bash each other over the head using that terminology.

 

[KenH]

A Mormon is not a Christian, period.

Even if he/she repented of his/her sins and placed his/her faith in Jesus just like you did?