JD Greear (quoting Jen Wilkin): "'We ought to whisper about what the Bible whispers about, and we ought to shout about what it shouts about.' And the Bible appears more to whisper when it comes to sexual sin compared to its shouts about materialism and religious pride."
Source
Is it me, or is this just one of the most patently off base thing I have ever heard about sexual sin in the bible? This just seems like another Christian leader scared to admit the truth: That the actively sexually immoral go to hell. Homosexuals and Fornicators and Adulterers are doomed unless they trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins and repent. I just feel embarrassed when this kind of stuff pops up in the SBC, my first church being an SBC church, but by doctrine I am now more Free Will Baptist or Independent Fundamental Baptist.
Sexual Sin is "Whispered" About in the Bible
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Steven Yeadon, Aug 31, 2019.
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Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I simply don't trust the source reporting the alleged quote to take it very seriously. I'd have to go back and find it, but I have too many things to do at the moment. However, I simply want to address your comments about this alleged quote:
I think the point that is being made is that our cultural Christianity tends to obsess about sexuality and ignore, or even condemn, social justice issues which are deeply woven into all of scripture. It is a grave distortion of the gospel and those who ignore need to consider whether or not they are actually disciples of Jesus (see Matthew 25:31-46). Jesus is clear that His disciples serve those in need.
That's not to say that the Bible teaches an unclear sexual ethic, but also, things are not quite as sharp and distinct as we make them, especially in first century Hellenistic culture outside of Palestine. For instance, Paul teaches slaves to serve their masters as they would serve Christ and to be obedient. Yet in the Roman world, slaves were used for many things, including sexual gratification. With a larger number of slaves involved in the Jesus movement than their proportion in regular society (20-33%), we can be confident that many Christians were being sexually used (often in homosexual acts) against their wishes. I don't think we see Paul or other church leaders condemning the slaves for their situation, but I do get the sense that Paul and other New Testament writers remind those Christians that those persons are under God's judgement and will be destroyed (for instance, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:9-10; Revelation 21:8).
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Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Let me first say that scripture repeatedly claims, unapologetically, that believers that practice sexual immorality without repentance are under eternal condemnation. Hebrews 13:4. Revelation 21:8. 1 Corinthians 6:9.
To your point, so are those that do not help their brother or sister in Christ when they are in need. The warning in Matthew 25 is proof of this, but there are more examples in the bible.
Social justice is a messy topic though, because it is often a discussion about small government vs large government politics. I try to keep my discussions centered on cheerful but deep charity from the believer personally. -
tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Isn't it interesting that the Lord calls them sheep who didn't think they were... To me those that display the attributes of God are his children... If not where did they get his attributes and men are not born with them either... They come from God above!... Brother Glen:) -
Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Steven Yeadon Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I was just so confused by your argument about sexual slavery. Prostitution is part of sexual immorality, and if followers of Christ would die over giving incense to the Emperor of Rome, then I doubt they would forsake death to avoid conscious, sexual sin.
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Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Slaves/servants were used all the time for procreation or as concubines, even by God's people. Think about Abraham and Sarah using Hagar to have Ishmael. Rachel and Leah using their servants to produce children fathered by Jacob. David collecting women everywhere he went, and adding even more when he became King. His sin with Bathsheba was not an aberration from his pattern, except that he took another man's wife. Even the murder of Uriah is not that much out of character, since he casually killed 200 Philistines in order to as a dowry for Michal, 100 more than requested.
As to my point about our Christian responsibility to be advocates for the things God cares about in the social/moral realm, you wrote:
What has happened is that many Christians were advocates of President Obama, who supported some things that are opposed to the Kingdom of God. Many times, those Christians did not hold Obama accountable and be an advocate for things that God cares about because it might harm their candidate and political party.
Now we have the same thing happening with President Trump. President Trump supports quite a few things that are opposed to the Kingdom of God, yet many Christians refuse to hold Trump accountable and be an advocate for things that God cares about because it might harm their candidate and political party.
Both of those realities is marrying the church to Belial and polticizing the gospel. I explicitly reject that approach. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Counsel regarding the propriety of graphic verbal denunciations of gross immoralities:
Monergism.com • John Gill • Commentary • Ephesians 5:12 ["it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret"]
"[Paul] tacitly intimates, that if it is a shame to speak of those sins" then "they should be reproved rather by deeds than by words"
"the apostle exhorts to reprove them, and yet does not express what they are" -
Greear: "we see Jesus demonstrating great sympathy for those in sexual sin and great animosity toward the religiously proud"
Indeed:
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter