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Featured Should the saved "care" about the lost going to Hades and Gehenna?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jan 11, 2022 at 11:12 AM.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    While on the surface, this seems obvious, of course they care, as they love the lost, still we need to explore why folks might not actually love the lost. What if they they believe God already consigned the lost to Hades and Gehenna?

    2 Thessalonians 2:10
    He (the Man of Lawlessness) will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.

    Being on the way to destruction does not suggest destruction is a forgone conclusion. Jesus came to save that which is lost.

    If God has foreordained who will be saved, and thus everyone else is de facto ordained to Hades and Gehenna, then the message of the gospel is misleading. If you were chosen before creation, then the gospel is good news, otherwise it is the news you were consigned to eternal punishment apart from God.

    Luke 6:27
    “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,

    Ask yourself this question, did Jesus have the power to forgive the sin of the lost, to take away the sin of the world, if God had already ordained who would not be forgiven?
    Matthew 9:6
    “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, pick up your stretcher and go home.”

    Did Jesus bring a message of hope or futility?
     
  2. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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    A message of hope and eternal salvation to all who recieve it!
     
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is the heart-felt question of one Calvinist:
    The Calvinism answer is no, God determined those going to heaven, and thus the rest not going to heaven before creation.
    The Scriptural answer is yes, diligent evangelism "hastens the day" thus more people per time interval, so the end of the age occurs sooner, resulting in less people not going to heaven.

    Two very different gospels...
     
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I can't help but wonder how many folks missed a chance to make it to heaven because Van spent so much time lolly-gagging/Calvinist-bashing with the saved folk on the BB.
     
    #4 kyredneck, Jan 12, 2022 at 10:31 AM
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022 at 10:37 AM
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This is the typical Calvinist response - change the subject to the behavior of their opponent - rather than defend their doctrine.

    The man-centered Calvinist doctrine makes God responsible for the lost going into eternal punishment, scripture indicates some of the lost might be saved through effective witness. For example, some people would have repented had they seen the miracles Jesus performed elsewhere. Or the fields are white with harvest.

    Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion? Calvinism says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the kingdom of God is at hand.

    Two very different gospels...
     
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  6. Servant of Lord Jesus

    Servant of Lord Jesus Active Member

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    They choose to be damned by rejecting the Lord, correct?
     
  7. Servant of Lord Jesus

    Servant of Lord Jesus Active Member

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    Were they sent into an eternal hell?
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What does scripture say?
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Are you referring to Hades? Consignment to Hades is not eternal. Your doctrine claims the lost have no opportunity to choose life, because the outcome of their life is a foregone conclusion.
    Not the gospel of Christ...
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    <sigh>

    Van, you're still lolly-gagging, wasting precious time when you should be doing something productive to populate heaven. I mean, we are talking about INFINITY here. God has given YOU the 'commission' to save as many as you can from eternity in a torture chamber, and all you can think about is bashing the Calvinists.
     
  11. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Van is the a difference in hell and Hades?

    if so, what?
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another subject change question.

    Your Calvinist doctrine claims the lost have no opportunity to choose life, because the outcome of their life is a foregone conclusion.
    Not the gospel of Christ...

    Mark 1:15
    and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

    According to Calvinism, Jesus is mistaken as the lost are not able to repent or believe.

    According to Calvinism, the good news is an illusion, as there is no opportunity for salvation among those previously consigned to Hades and Gehenna. Jesus says "seek God" but Calvinism says no lost person ever seeks God.

    On and on folks, two very different gospels...
     
  13. 5 point Gillinist

    5 point Gillinist New Member

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    God calls all to repent and believe. He has also chosen those whom He will save before the foundation of the earth. We are not called to figure out the elect, but to preach the gospel to all men. Those who embrace Christ do so out of a divine work in their heart first. Those who reject Him do so because they are left in their hardened God hating state.
    Is God obligated to save everyone in your opinion, is He unjust to withhold mercy from whom He chooses, and show mercy to whom He chooses?
    All men have a duty to believe, yet God has chosen whom he will save - John 6:37.
    As said by others why don't you focus on evangelizing the lost rather than asking why Calvinists preach the gospel, and bashing us. At the end of the day our goals are the same (in evangelism and desire to see the lost saved).
    We evangelize because God commands us - hope that clears it up for you.
     
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  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    @5 point Gillinist, from one Gillite to another, welcome to the BB. You should introduce yourself on the New Members Forum.
     
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  15. Servant of Lord Jesus

    Servant of Lord Jesus Active Member

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    all who reject the saving grace of God in Christ Jesus are eternally damned
     
  16. Servant of Lord Jesus

    Servant of Lord Jesus Active Member

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    You see them offered a second chance while in hell, or now hold to Purgatory then?
     
  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Are lost people capable of obeying the Big 10 (Commandments)?

    God commands us to obey them knowing that no one could ever really obey them!!!

    Why is one “fair of God” in your eyes ie., Gods command to obey (which is a huge assumption here) while condemning us to hell for our failure to repent and believe?

    both are commands of God
     
  18. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    I actually asked in an honest manner, I was curious as to how you understood them
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well, Matthew 7:21-23. Some not doing God's will, trusting in one's own works.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, and therefore corporate chose those who the Redeemer would redeem. However no individual was chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world because all those individually chose existed before as "not a people" and as having "not obtained mercy." 1 Peter 2:9-10.
    2) We are called to preach the gospel, but are not called to preach "another gospel."
    3) Total Spiritual Inability has been shown to be unbiblical nonsense numerous times.
    4) If the lost are in a "hardened state" why did God need to harden them in Romans 11?
    5) God is not "obligated" to save anyone. Stop trying to imply I may hold unbiblical views by asking "have you stopped beating your wife questions."
    6) John 6:37
    "Everyone whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away." Note the tense, God gives, not God has given before creation. So this verse supports individual election during the lifetime of the believer.
    7) Why don't you focus on the topic, rather than changing the subject to my behavior. Your use of that ploy is ignominious. I do not bash people, I bash false and unbiblical doctrine as commanded by scripture.
    8) The reason to evangelize is given in scripture.
     
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