Ann, I appreciate your post. You have brought up several points which I am too tired to address all tonight. :sleeping_2: Big day tomorrow coming up.
But I will address a couple of them. I am not a big Joyce Meyer fan, meaning that I have never attended a seminar, never have bought a book or a tape, never donated to her ministry, but I have watched/listened to her speak several times a week on TV. What I do know about her as far as her minstry goes, is I seriously doubt she is taking money from the ministry (that is donations people are sending in and used them for personal gain). I could be wrong, but I doubt it. She may draw a salary, but I seriously doubt that she needs to, because she makes loads from selling her books and tapes and DVDs. And she is perfectly within her right to make money from those, there is nothing wrong with that.
Now, if she was taking donations people sent in to her and using it for personal gain, that would be different. Her children are grown and probably on salary from the ministry, and there is nothing wrong with that, they are working and have a right to be paid for their jobs. It takes 100s of people to put together one of her conferences/praise gatherings and some of those people are volunteers and others are on staff voluntarily and others are paid staff (not relatives). She showed some behind-the-scenes on one of her programs recently on TV.
http://www.joycemeyer.org/AboutUs/FinancialAccountability/
What I do know, and this can be verified from her web site, is she has a big missions ministry whereby the ministry feeds starving children overseas and supplies medical help for them. That is a big part of the ministry.
http://www.joycemeyer.org/OurMinistries/HandofHope/
Now let's look at where she came from before we criticize too much of where she lives now. (Yes, I've seen the spread in the St. Louis paper, complete with pictures, etc.) She and her husband traveled all over the country in the beginning (for years), in a van, sleeping in the van, because they couldn't afford a motel. She had a rough row to hoe as a woman trying to serve in ministry because everybody knows women preachers are a big no-no in Christian circles, it's a man's world, and some in particular think a woman's place is not in the pulpit or podium or whatever. We know that. But she kept on going and made sacrifices that a lot of other women would not be willing to make because she believed God had called her to ministry.
At any rate, Joyce and her hubby were on the road (and still on the road) who knows how many days out of the year, because she believes God has called her to ministry. Because she is gone so much, she has to pay salaries to people to help her do things that you and I do for ourselves, things like a personal assistant, secretary, someone to keep running the household, etc.
I have never heard her talk about some of the things she has been accused of on this thread and in other places, and if she said something that didn't line up with what Scripture teaches, I think bells would go off in my head and red flags would go up and I would be the first to jump on the band wagon and point that out. Not that I know everything in the Bible, but I think I have a pretty good working knowledge of what God says in His Word, having been raised a PK and walking with the Lord for a few decades.
To be honest, when I first started watching her program, I did so with a bias - I had heard all the negative stuff about her and wanted to see for myself if those things were true. My antennae are still up and have been up, but I haven't heard her teach anything that wasn't Scriptural. I have not heard her talk about getting money and riches from God. Name and claim your wealth or any of that. Nothing contrary to what God's Word says.
As far as stuff she may have written or said 20 years ago, well, I would like to think that we have all matured in our walk with the Lord since 20 years ago, too. So maybe 20 years ago she said something that was off the wall, but she hasn't for the last 6 months or so that I have been watching her program.
More later.....
So what's the difference between Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by LadyEagle, Jun 17, 2008.
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I can't look for the info right now because I'm heading up to church in a bit, but I know that the fact that the ministry has bought multiple houses, pays the property taxes and such is verifiable. Now for a church, usually the church provides housing for their pastor (or in our case, provides a housing allowance) but no church or ministry should be purchasing a mansion. That is beyond "necessary" needs especially when the majority of her supporters are lower middle class or lower, I'm sure. Now if that was a family house or her husband worked and between the two of them, they could afford it, that's one thing - but for the ministry to purchase it is wrong.
I know if anyone needed to audit our finances, we'd be an open book - and the same with our church (actually, our church is audited by an independent firm yearly to be sure we are on the up-and-up). Why is she not cooperating with the inquiry done by the government? Because she has something to hide, IMO. -
this is from the Book Straight Talk by Joyce Meyer on Lonlieness Chapter One--You are never alone
Matthew 28:18 (KJV)
And Jesus came and spake unto them saying ...lo, I am with you always, even unto the ends of the world
God wants you to know you are not alone. satan wants you to believe that you are all alone, but you are not. He wants you to believe that no one understands how you feel, but that is not true.
In addition to God being with you, many believers know how you feel and understand what you are experiencing mentally and emotionally. Psalm 34:19 tells us "Many evils confront the consistently righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. There are many accounts in the bible of "the afflicitions of the righteous" and the Lord's deliverance from them.
God delivered Paul and Silas from prison (see Acts 16;23-26)
When you are making progress, Satan often brings affliction to discourage you and will try to make you feel alone. But what Satan intends for our harm, God will work for our good. (See Genesis 50:20). You can do as David did in the scripture above and encourage yourself by remembering past victories.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendego experienced affliction when they remained firm in their commitment to the One true God (See Daniel 3:10-30) When they refused the command of King Nebuchadnezzar to worship the golden image he had set up, the king cast them into the fiery furnace which he had heated to seven times hotter than usual! God will not only bring you out of your afflictions but He will also bring you up!
As we have seen afflictions come upon all of us. We all experience a certain amount of grief and lonlieness in this life from time to time but we are not alone. The bible tells us to resist the devil: resist him steadfast in the faith very uplifting! -
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Good points
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Not all affliction is from Satan and that is a dangerous teaching if that's what she's telling people:
Psalm 32
1 Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven,
whose sin is covered.
2Blessed is the man against whom the LORD counts no iniquity,
and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
3For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
4For day and night your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer.
Selah
5I acknowledged my sin to you,
and I did not cover my iniquity;
I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,"
and you forgave the iniquity of my sin.
Selah
6Therefore let everyone who is godly
offer prayer to you at a time when you may be found;
surely in the rush of great waters,
they shall not reach him.
7You are a hiding place for me;
you preserve me from trouble;
you surround me with shouts of deliverance.
Selah
8I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
I will counsel you with my eye upon you.
9 Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding,
which must be curbed with bit and bridle,
or it will not stay near you.
10 Many are the sorrows of the wicked,
but steadfast love surrounds the one who trusts in the LORD.
11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, O righteous,
and shout for joy, all you upright in heart! -
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http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...C5099399D2FCC5FA86256DDF00661C5F?OpenDocument
http://graphics.stltoday.com/infographics/joycemeyer/joycemeyer4.html
BTW - I found the quote about "little gods"
" - You know, I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this, and I think this kind of gets the point across, he said, ‘Why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation, His man—not His whole creation, but His man—little gods? If He’s God, what’s He going to call them but the god-kind?’ I mean, if you as a human being have a baby, you call it a human kind. If cattle has another cattle, they call it cattle-kind. So, I mean, what’s God supposed to call us? Doesn’t the Bible say we’re created in his image? Now, you understand I am not saying you are God with a capital G."
(Joyce Meyer, "Authority and Opposition," Tape 1236. Article, "What Joyce Wants Joyce Gets")
And if they are correctly quoted, these show that she's at best a false teacher, at worst a heretic:
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Yikes!!!:eek: some of those quotes by JM are downright scary!
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I will have to look into the stuff about Joyce...I've always liked her, although her program is on at odd hours and I don't get to watch/listen a lot. I will definitely stand up and defend Beth Moore, though. I have been through several of her studies and there is never anything that can not be supported Biblically, in context. Beth is really big about studying context and cross referencing passages of Scripture. It would take a whole lot of really strong proof before I would believe there is something wrong with her. :BangHead:
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But two questions: Do we not believe death and life are in the power of the tongue? Do we not believe there is a law of sowing and reaping? -
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Do you think that we can speak death into our life? That if I say that my neighbor should die that he will? How about me speaking "life" over a dying person. Will they suddenly be restored to full health? No. Our words do not have power to change God's will, to change nature, to even change our circumstances.
Here is what Matthew Henry has to say about this passage:
As for sowing and reaping - yes, there is no doubt that there is a rule of sowing and reaping but to use that to manipulate your audience to give a million dollars (or their entire life savings) is sinful. She said ""Sowing and reaping is a law," Meyer told the Buffalo audience. "If you sow, you will reap. I believe stingy people are very unhappy people. I want you to give your best offering. I believe one person could write one check to cover all of the expenses of this one conference."" She's not speaking of Biblical sowing and reaping. She's speaking of "give me money so I can get a $100,000 car."
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