Yes I know. My there are some problems in the Baptist Church that need to be dealt with. But lets get back to bashing Catholicism. The reaction to my posts from yourself and clint are not unexpected. Same or rhetoric and ducking the issues raised. Same old falling back on the same old anti-catholic propaganda that has been refuted time and time again.
Have a good weekend boys.
Now are these baptists that were supposedly born again Christians really born again Christians. If not I am sure they think they are so how does one who thinks he is know that he is decieving himself. Especially since sin blinds. Were John Calvin and King James really born again Christians since they killed people? So perhaps they weren't but we really liked their Bibles and the doctrines so let's honor them by placing their names on things. Or is it that a Born Again Christian can kill people because OSAS.
Soul Liberty?
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by GraceSaves, May 21, 2003.
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Clint Kritzer Active MemberSite Supporter
Please show me anywhere on the board in any post that I have quoted a passage from the King James Version of the Bible.
Also can you show me any of the Scripture posted in this thread that runs counter to the liberally and biasly interpreted Latin Vulgate?
I can handle an underhanded character attack, but you'll have to do a little better than that, Thessalonian.
[ May 23, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ] -
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Not exactly DHK. It is my God given right to do or say anything I like which might include following His will or rebelling against it. This has nothing to do with the Baptist doctrine of Soul Liberty.
It was born out of self defense and is in direct contradiction to the Biblical standard of standing against false doctrine. -
But believe what you will, Catholics are very adept at revisionist history.
DHK -
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DHK, I'm not Catholic!!!!
Ask Ron and he'll probably tell you that I'm more anti-Catholic than you are.
2 Peter 1:20-21
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
All Paul is saying is that the prophets spoke the words of God, not their own words. If this isn't a twisting of scripture, I don't know what is.
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
How this fits Soul Liberty I'll never know. It has everything to do with personal interpretation and discerning truth from false doctrine. Something Baptists aren't allowed to do because of the doctrine of Soul Liberty. -
Clint Kritzer Active MemberSite Supporter
Hi Nils, good to see you.
As I said in the last conversation of this nature, Jim Jones, Charlie Manson, and David Koresh all called themselves "Christian." That does not mean that the label applies but rather that is what they called themselves.
Because of individual accountability between myself and God, I would not attend a church that taught that homosexuality was not a sin. That is my right, my choice as an individual and duty as one who does not forsake the assembly of like-minded believers. I recognize homosexuality as a sin because of the overwhelming evidence in Scripture that it is. Hence, no matter what man says that it is acceptable to God, I know better and conduct my thoughts and conversations to reflect such.
Likewise, I would be quite cautious in allowing a person who espoused such ideas in joining my own church.
True Christian convictions come not from man and his arguments but rather true conviction comes from the Holy Spirit. Hence, I pray for salvation for those folks, I try to act as an instrument in bringing about realization to the lost, but in no way am I under any obligation to believe or espouse their teachings. That is between them and their Judge. -
It is true that you can't keep another from using the name Baptist, but you don't have to recognize the use of the name. It is "soul competency" that mandates that you recognize the others as Baptists. In doing so, you must recognize them as fellow Christians. -
"Though it is very poor argumentation on the point and I would normally not even comment, this is too good to pass up.
Please show me anywhere on the board in any post that I have quoted a passage from the King James Version of the Bible. "
Your logic is of the nature, well I'm not a member of the KKK. I never killed anybody. But when stuff is associated with your Church you say "they did it". Yet a Catholic does something and the whole Catholic Church did it. Your a hypocrit Clint. Oh yes I know for our leaders there is no such thing as personal sin. If the Pope sins the whole Catholic Church is damned to hell over it.
Why Clint, you mean to tell me your the only Baptist who doesn't own a King James Bible? That was really some slick arguing there Clint. You sure made a fool out of me. KJV the most perfect Bible in the world most Baptists will say. Soul Liberty, now that is a universal Baptist doctrine that only those who excercise there soul liberty don't have to go by. But KJV being the only legit version of the Bible, well that is not a true doctrine unless of course your using your soul liberty to say it is. Then it is the trueest thing since sliced bread.
Try to understand that when I am writing these posts it is not just you that I have in mind. I know full well that no protestant is like another.
I understand that I am not going to convince you of anything. When I post it is for the reading audience. Try not to take it so personal. 90% or better of Baptists use King James Bibles. It is the most purchased version among Protestants. Why would Protestants name their Bibles after someone who burned a Baptist and thought every woman he didn't like was a witch and burned them also. In fact I am trying to remember if any Catholic Bibles have a name attached to them of a man. Seems like a pretty high honor to me for someone who burned people.
While I know of the Tyndale, KJV, and a few others that slip my mind.
Blessings -
Lift your head and smell the beautiful roses, my friend!
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Thessalonian,
There is one hitch to playing the "Soul Liberty" card. If you want to play it, it must go both ways. In other words, if you want to be covered by it, you must recognize that all others are Christians too. -
This is why other Christian baptisms are accepted as valid by the Church, if they were performed properly (I think that requires correct intent, trinitarian form, flowing water) -
No, I don't think you understand. You must call anyone who claims to be a Christian a brother in Christ. If they teach that practicing homosexuality is good in the sight of the Lord, you must still call them a brother in Christ.
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Originally posted by Tuor:
DHK, I'm not Catholic!!!!
Ask Ron and he'll probably tell you that I'm more anti-Catholic than you are.Click to expand...
Acts 17:11 teaches soul liberty. So does 2Peter 1:20,21. Baptists have held to this historic belief much longer than you care to think--long before the Reformation.Click to expand...Soul Liberty says that you can't judge false doctrine. It is as simple as that. That is why those who teach that homosexuality is good in the sight of the Lord must be allowed the label Baptist. Therefore the likes of post-it and Joshua can post in about every section of this site.Click to expand...
What soul liberty does, is give me that right to express my condemnation of false doctrine, and at the same time give others the same right to defend or preach their false doctrine.
Almost any country that has a state-religion will not have soul liberty. For example if you go to Saudi Arabia, where Islam is the state-religion, and try and preach Christ freely, you will be either locked up permanently or killed. Neither do you have that freedom in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Where a state-religion exists it is difficult for soul liberty or freedom of religion to exist. This was particularly true during the reigns of Anglican or Catholic monarchs, as they became the official heads of the religion of their country. Many protestants died under their reigns.
2 Peter 1:20-21
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
All Paul is saying is that the prophets spoke the words of God, not their own words. If this isn't a twisting of scripture, I don't know what is.Click to expand...
Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
How this fits Soul Liberty I'll never know. It has everything to do with personal interpretation and discerning truth from false doctrine. Something Baptists aren't allowed to do because of the doctrine of Soul Liberty.Click to expand...
DHK -
Originally posted by thessalonian:
Your logic is of the nature, well I'm not a member of the KKK. I never killed anybody. But when stuff is associated with your Church you say "they did it". Yet a Catholic does something and the whole Catholic Church did it. Your a hypocrit Clint. Oh yes I know for our leaders there is no such thing as personal sin. If the Pope sins the whole Catholic Church is damned to hell over it.Click to expand...
Why Clint, you mean to tell me your the only Baptist who doesn't own a King James Bible? That was really some slick arguing there Clint. You sure made a fool out of me. KJV the most perfect Bible in the world most Baptists will say. Soul Liberty, now that is a universal Baptist doctrine that only those who excercise there soul liberty don't have to go by. But KJV being the only legit version of the Bible, well that is not a true doctrine unless of course your using your soul liberty to say it is. Then it is the trueest thing since sliced bread.Click to expand...
It is not a baptist doctrine. But it is a good example where we have the soul liberty to disagree with each other, and are not forced to agree--even in the same church (at least some of them).
Try to understand that when I am writing these posts it is not just you that I have in mind. I know full well that no protestant is like another.
I understand that I am not going to convince you of anything. When I post it is for the reading audience. Try not to take it so personal. 90% or better of Baptists use King James Bibles. It is the most purchased version among Protestants. Why would Protestants name their Bibles after someone who burned a Baptist and thought every woman he didn't like was a witch and burned them also. In fact I am trying to remember if any Catholic Bibles have a name attached to them of a man. Seems like a pretty high honor to me for someone who burned people.
While I know of the Tyndale, KJV, and a few others that slip my mind.Click to expand...
The Bible itself was named in honor of the King who gave permission for the Bible to be written, and commanded that the best scholars in the land be summoned to translate such an undertaking. Read the preface sometime.
DHK -
Southeastbaptist:
Have you ever read a history book on an inquisition?
I have read many, including the 20th century book entitled " The vatican's holocaust " by Avro Manhattan.Click to expand...
God Bless -
Originally posted by DHK:
And according to Catholic teaching you don't even get the right to "think" or "interpret" what the Bible says. Only a priest can do that. So next time you say, "Well I think it means..." don't! As a Catholic you are not permitted. When it comes to Biblical interpretation, the Catholic church calls all the shots. As a Catholic, in their eyes, you have no soul liberty.Click to expand...
...Catholicism which started with a pagan emperor named Constantine.Click to expand...
Our church is the "church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."Click to expand...
One, holy, catholic and apostolic church -- one truth. Thousands of other churches -- thousands of other truths, contradicting each other at every turn. Holy headache, Batman! :D
Here you agree with me. Previously you disagreed with me.Click to expand...
I think my Jesuit-implant chip must be acting up. Might need to get the bishop to fix it.
The Catholic Church, until recently, didn't even allow the common person to own a Bible much less to read one. Now the common person may read a Bible, but the interpretation still belongs to the priest or church. Personal Bible study is still discouraged.
Further in the past the Catholic church took great pains to burn Bibles in order to keep them out of peoples hands.
DHKClick to expand...
Where do you come up with this stuff???? This isn't a Jack Chick thread in disguise, is it?
:confused: :confused:
Oh yeah, "Gotta discredit the Catholic Church, gotta discredit the Catholic Church, gotta discredit the Catholic Church,..."
Nighty-night, I'm all tuckered out! Gotta go rest my ignorant zombie little head ;) . -
Originally posted by MikeS:
If I didn't know any better Mike I'd mistake you for a Muslim.
[QB] </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />OK, I'm running out of steam here, so I'll be short. I can "think" and "interpret" all I want as a Catholic. But I don't want to "interpret" the bible, any more than I want to "interpret" 2+2. I want the truth, and the Catholic Church, the living, supernatural organism founded by Christ, has the truth in its Scripture, and Tradition, and Magesterium. I study them all so that I may come to know more of the truth, not to "interpret" my way to something I decide is the truth. The truth is not mine to decide, only mine to accept, believe, and understand. It's that submission to the Church of Christ thing again. Truly, it does go against our proud human nature, no denying that.Click to expand...
...Catholicism which started with a pagan emperor named Constantine.Click to expand...That old Reformation mantra, still going strong: "Gotta discredit the Catholic Church, gotta discredit the Catholic Church, gotta discredit the Catholic Church,..."Click to expand...
Our church is the "church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."Click to expand...
The Catholic Church, until recently, didn't even allow the common person to own a Bible much less to read one. Now the common person may read a Bible, but the interpretation still belongs to the priest or church. Personal Bible study is still discouraged.
Further in the past the Catholic church took great pains to burn Bibles in order to keep them out of peoples hands.
DHKClick to expand...Where do you come up with this stuff???? This isn't a Jack Chick thread in disguise, is it?
Oh yeah, "Gotta discredit the Catholic Church, gotta discredit the Catholic Church, gotta discredit the Catholic Church,..."
Nighty-night, I'm all tuckered out! Gotta go rest my ignorant zombie little head ;) .Click to expand...
Lot of similarities there.
DHK
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