Spiritual interpretation ....pt.7

Hello B,
Do you see this as the beginning of that process?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?

7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

redeemed man obeying the creation mandate?

 

No, I see the kingdom in its fullest force prior to the fall in sinless state of creation. After the fall, I see the partial reinstatement of the Kingdom WITHIN those in the Second Adam. The new birth (spiritual union) establishes the kingdom/rule of God within all who are "in Christ" as the Second Adam. However, the outward manifestation of that rule is where the process becomes more complex and incomplete between the fall and the restoration of a new heaven and earth. It is in that outward manifestation of His rule where the professing kingdom of God occurs mixed together with the counterfeit professing people of God. It is in this PROFESSING KINGDOM where Israel in the Old Testament as the professing kingdom and the church in the New Testament operate with the administration of the keys of the kingdom. The nation of Israel in the OT and the church in the New Testament were the visible authorized administrators within the professing kingdom as the ordinances, ordained ministry, along with public worship is conducted in this aspect of the kingdom of God.

 

We agreed that 24:4-14 are not signs related to the destruction. The Gospel continues to all nations until Jesus returns.

Would "every nation under heaven" convince you? Those "Pentecostal" Jews presumably went home.

Jesus' "coming" statements quote Daniel. What direction was he coming? The Jews understood the"blasphemy."

Why should first century Gentiles be scoffers? The warning was to the Jews. The attitude of subsequent generations of Jews is not in the prophecy though the state of the city of Jerusalem is.

It would be helpful if you were to reply to what I write, rather than invent things you can ridicule.

 

So you do not believe that 'wars and rumours of wars etc. are not related to AD 70? I'm sorry; I was not aware of that. Most Preterists that I have debated take the whole of the Olivet Discourse as applying to that event.

Convince me of what? There was clearly no church established in Philippi, Thessalonika etc. before Paul arrived. It is hyperbole.

Of course they did. The term 'Son of Man' as used by the Lord Jesus throughout His ministry, might have referred either to Ezekiel or Daniel 7. When He used the term in Mark 14:62, it was a clear reference to Daniel and was a clear claim to His divinity. That does not alter the fact that Daniel 7 refers to our Lord's return to heaven after His ascension.

Why wouldn't they? They have been ever since. The Gospel was 'folly to the Gentiles' even in the 1st Century (1 Corinthians 1:23).

I believe I am replying to what you write, but I'm sorry if you feel it is ridicule. That is not my intention. Sometimes, when I'm in a hurry, my posts may seem unnecessarily brusque. Please forgive me if I come across as rude.

 

The whole world meant there was not just the Roman Empire, but the entire world, as Jesus meant the churcgh to go out to all nations, not just Middle east!

 

???

Where? Link to ANY post where I've even remotely implied that.

Everyone has seen the the immense impact that His ' coming into His kingdom' has had upon humankind.

 

So you think that AD 70 put an end to doubt and doubting? And to scoffing as well? I don't think so! :D

Sure there is! Wars and rumours of wars; nation rising against nation; famines, earthquakes and pestilences; false Christs and false prophets, and of course the Gospel being steadily preached throughout the world. When people ask me about these things and ask why God doesn't do something, I tell them that if they didn't happen the Bible wouldn't be true.

It's not a failure at all.

Yes, but they didn't happen! No one saw the Lord Jesus in AD 70. And as for all the other things, they didn't stop in AD 70, that's for sure!

Well, for sure! Certainly we should not be bent out of shape by unfulfilled prophecy and get on with 'speeding the Lord's coming (2 Peter 3:12) by preaching the Gospel all through the world.

Rather, the prophesied events are being fulfilled all through history and will continue to be so until the Lord's coming, which will, as you say, be without specific warnings.[/QUOTE]
When Jesus has the actual second coming, the entire world will know of it, as there will be right then a new world order established upon the earth, NONE of that happened AD 70!

 

When Jesus has the actual second coming, the entire world will know of it, as there will be right then a new world order established upon the earth, NONE of that happened AD 70![/QUOTE]


Who said anyone saw the Lord?
Who said they had to?
The kingdom had already been instituted before 70 ad....but you are just making it up as you go.

 

If events haven't occurred according to your opinions, is it possible that YOU could be wrong?

 

Most Preterists would understand those events in the way Jesus explained. They happen without specific significance. Ongoing, not signs of the end, neither of AD 70, nor the Lord's final coming for resurrection and judgment.

True, but world wide preaching was in progress. Could Jesus not have come before 1492 because America hadn't been discovered and evangelised? Therefore AD 70 must be wrong?!?

At the time of writing, the "this generation, forty years" prophecy was fast approaching or was spurious. They chose to scoff, rather than repent.

Today, nobody can honestly argue that the flood didn't occur, nor that Jerusalem and the temple still stand. Jesus was wrong in his prophecy.

They may, of course, argue and scoff, because they believe lies. That is to their loss. But if AD 70 had not occurred the way it did, on time and in detail, then the scoffers would be vindicated, rather than Christ.

Thanks, accepted.
My concern is that when I have answered a post in detail, points I haven't made are assumed and and answered.

Yesh and Jap John are experts at deliberate misunderstanding and "refuting" their own misunderstandings.

 

The thorns and briers from Isa5 are the same ones the writer to Hebrews warns true believers about. When Jesus is rejected by most in Physical Israel in Mt 21......only the elect remnant is saved....He then continues building His church in the midst of opposition.
There are no major events to yet happen until the last day.
The day of the Lord came upon Israel.....now The gospel spreads as mt28 speaks of,until the activity right before the last day.

 

Who said anyone saw the Lord?
Who said they had to?
The kingdom had already been instituted before 70 ad....but you are just making it up as you go.[/QUOTE]
All eyes shall see him per revelation, Jesus stated also that His coming will be as flash as lighting from east to the west, so will be something that will be recorded down as a BIG event, especially when the resurrection of the saints happen!

 

Read Isaiah 6.
Seeing without understanding. We often say "I see" when we mean that we understand. The tribes of Israel certainly understood when their scoffing was answered by the AD 70 destruction. 2 Peter 3, Acts 28

The destruction was a BIG event. How many other events of the first century are still widely known?

 

Not known at all outside of isreal, but the second coming will be known world wide!

 

ONE minute to reply. You have NOT read the references.

 

All eyes shall see him per revelation, Jesus stated also that His coming will be as flash as lighting from east to the west, so will be something that will be recorded down as a BIG event, especially when the resurrection of the saints happen![/QUOTE]

Can you answer any question at all?

here is the question....
show where anyone of us declared that Jesus physically returned in ad 70 ...quote or tell us which post it was...is that too much to ask? If none of us said that, stop saying it!