Ever have one of those moments where you didn't know whether to laugh or cry?
I have read some versions where I believe the Spirit was practically yelling at me to close the book.... BUT (and I am strongly King James Preference) I don't see the issue with this particular verse. One can not be IN Jesus without walking in the Spirit. That is, if you are walking in the flesh you are not in Jesus.
Which way did the autograph read? Either way I don't see it as a change of meaning.
Paul practically repeats the statement in Galatians, which is both an argument that it should be in Rom 8:1 AND an argument that it was an added cross reference. People repeat certain phrases, for all we know Paul was fond of saying 'walk in the spirit' and wrote it all the time... but people also like to copy notes into their bibles (even the scribes) so maybe it was a cross reference saying, "look, this is what he is talking about when he says in Jesus."
Strange Things the Holy Spirit Cannot Do….
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 22, 2009.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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I'm very well aware of that, thats why I said 'did it read', instead of 'does it read'.
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Well well well, now I remember why I don't come here anymore. Just for the record, I believe that the KJV says it correctly. People like to leave the second part out because it leaves them free to believe other things. (Whatever is convenient), and gives them the liberty to attack others.
The Holy Spirit does speak to all of us daily. Some choose to ignore Him, but He is speaking never the less.
John 16-13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
The Bible is for ALL of us, otherwise, these verses would not need to be in our Bible.
Jesus was speaking to all the people that would ever be born in this world, from then until this present day and beyond.
Not just the Apostles, that were there with Him that day.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
God Bless you all,
Tam -
[QUOTE] Pastor Larry: Yet if I claim that the Holy Spirit told me that Rom 8:1 was in fact inspired as the modern versions have it, I have made the exact kind of claim and thus we have two opposite position both claiming the Holy Spirit as the source. How do you mediate between that? You can't, which is why the OP was misguided.[/QUOTE]
HP: Patience Larry. God has yet to speak in finality, .....but He will. I have spoke and you have spoke and we both will stand before Him and give an account for every idle word spoken. Yes, there will be a way to mediate between our dissenting opinions. Be certain as to where you stand and what you say and I should do the same. If you are not certain of your opinion, then silence is in order. One thing for certain is that this list can do without your slanderous and wicked comparisons. -
HP: No, I do not believe that all men are liars I direct opposition to your stated beliefs.
As for which men in particular are not liars, I will allow God to be the final judge of that. Scripture does give us some good insight into those in particular, i.e., all those making their eternal abode with Christ that will not find their home in an eternal hell. Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. -
HP: What a refreshing breeze of spiritual insight you bring back to the list. :thumbs: It is nice to know that the Spirit still witnesses truth to His people.
HP: Amen. Isn’t it nice to know that the God that we will stand before does not simply leave us in the maelstrom of man’s opinions and those that call themselves experts, but guides us and teaches us His truth if we will be attentive to His voice? I know one thing for certain, we will have an Advocate on that day. Where will all the experts be that some seem so desperately depending on? Will they stand with those that follow them and testify before God on their behalf in the last day as to how they treated the Word of God and those that claimed to be lead by His Spirit? Will these experts be there to tell God that His Holy Spirit could not testify to man’s heart the truth He intended to give to man in His Word, in particular relating to this discussion concerning whether or not the last half of Romans 8:1 is in fact His words to man? We shall see won’t we. As for myself, I will do my best to be attentive to His Spirit and be careful how I limit the Holy Spirit’s dealings with other individuals as well. One might find themselves fighting against a Holy God in the end.
HP: Do you think you are omnipotent as God, knowing everything? You know I am just kidding!:laugh: But if you have followed this thread such charges are being leveled at me in like manner. Oh well, comes with the territory.
I am reminded of a talented talk show host that remarked how when one fails to take a definitive stand there seems to be little or no opposition, but let one take a stand and stand there and all the powers of hell seem to come against them. There is nothing that enflames the attacks of men more than one that knows where he stands and stands there. Stand firm Tam! The Lord will sustain you!
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Does God speak to you through a burning bush as he did to Moses?
If you speak in tongues is there a mighty wind and cloven tongues of fire present every time?
Have you witnessed the parting of the Red Sea lately?
--All Scripture/events do not apply to us today.
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But we all know that the Bible is called a living book. Each time I pick it up and begin to read, the Holy Spirit shows me understanding of scripture that I didn't see before, even though I may have read the scripture hundreds of times before.
But then how can light debate with darkness. The scripture even says:
1 Tim 6-20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
If the scripture was not for me, then who? All scripture is given for inspiration------etc.
And with that I will sign off for now.
Tam -
HP: You are drawing a comparison between my statement of the Holy Spirit testifying to my heart that the KJV of Romans 8:1 is correct, with the wicked statement made by an adulterer. That is about as low of a comparison I have ever witnessed on this list If you cannot see how that can be seen as a personal insult, you need some sensitivity training.
There is no reasonable or just comparison between the two remarks, and to act as if there is it can certainly be seen as slanderous and wicked. Your comparison is an insult to any semblance of reason. One is the truth, the other a lie of the enemy. There is no just comparison as you attempted to draw, and you as a Pastor should be the first to know.
It was baseless and without merit, and as such was nothing more than a thinly veiled baseless personal attack.
What if you told me that you were a believer and I told you that the following was a reasonable comparison.
You say you are a believer and that God testifies that truth to your heart..
I knew a man that said he was a believer and that God testified that to his heart and yet he admitted he lived like the devil.
I AM NOT MAKING ANY COMPARISON BETWEEN ANY WICKED INDIVIDUAL AND PASTOR LARRY. I am simply illustrating to the list the wicked and slanderous nature of any and all such comparisons. Let them not be named once among us.
Here is the lesson to be learned. Just because others misuse the Holy Spirit or any truth for that matter, does not negate the fact that others can be completely in line with the truth. The only thing that is established is one is being truthful and the other a liar. No comparisons can be rightfully made between the two. -
HP: Yet another thinly veiled personal attack. Tell me what is the difference between this remark and telling me that I am a blasphemer? You would do well to restate your remark in a less offensive way and more in keeping with truth and Christian charity. -
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Let's return to the topic and get away from your rabbit trails.
I say that the Holy Spirit has confirmed to me the truth of Romans 8:1 that it should not contain the last phrase found in the KJV.
How do you respond?
And BTW, please quit changing the font. It makes your posts obnoxious to read. -
Quote:
TL: The Holy Spirit does speak to all of us daily. Some choose to ignore Him, but He is speaking never the less.
HP: Tell us more about just what you are agreeing to. What does the Holy Spirit speak to you daily DHK? Can you give us Scriptures that would tell us specifically that such knowledge is indeed granted by the Holy Spirit? Is He limited to speaking to you only in accordance to the truth He has in the past, or is He free to share with you His Word? If not why not. If He cannot share with us the actual words in His Word, how can you be certain that the ones you would point to in Scripture are in actuality the truth??
No one is speaking about extra biblical revelation here. That is a paper duck, and a lame one at that. We are speaking directly concerning THE WORD OF GOD and if God can in fact reveal THE WORD OF GOD to ones heart as He intended it to be written down. If not why not? If not, why is that not specifically going beyond Scripture in limiting God to what He can and cannot reveal to man’s heart?
I would think that IF ANYTHING, God would be in the business of revealing to man’s heart the truth of His Word. That certainly would be within the confines of ‘Scripture itself’ would it not? Nothing ‘extra biblical’ about that is there? -
HP: Then are you directly accusing me or calling me a blasphemer? -
Perhaps this is part of the problem both in this conversation, as well as with the Bible: You don't appear to be paying attention to what is said.
Bad doctrine and bad conversations are the result of people who don't read closely and pay attention to understand. -
But let's return to the issue and let me repeat what I asked earlier:
I say that the Holy Spirit has confirmed to me the truth of Romans 8:1 that it should not contain the last phrase found in the KJV.
How do you respond? -
HP: Lets review the facts. The Scriptures say, Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
I say, yes, that is correct and the Holy Spirit witnesses to my heart that it is correct.
I would say that I am paying close attention to not only His Word but the Spirit as well. They agree.
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