FYI : You have to be aware of some things about EW&F's posting habits. Many of his remarks have no bearing on anything anyone has said. His thought patterns are not very orderly. And many times he does not answer direct questions.
Temporal Salvation
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 8, 2014.
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Yet when Jesus said, "It is finished," that is not what sealed eternal salvation. What was finished was Jesus the Son of God born of woman was about to accomplish his mission, the just giving his life for the unjust. Jesus is about to die for our sins and or the sin of the world.
Death does not bring life nor salvation. All souls were to die for their own sin. One could not die for another for all have sinned and their death would be for their own sin. Yet Jesus, the sinless one, died for our sins.
Where does salvation come from? What is the righteousness of God? What is the grace of God that brings salvation for all men? Exactly when was eternal salvation, authored? Is it righteous that one sinless should be dead forever (separated from the Father forever, "My God My God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me." "Father into your hands I commend my spirit," My life.
It is finished, We have a dead Christ.
And if Christ be not raised, your faith vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17
When Jesus said, "it is finished," the faith (of God his Father) came. The moment the Father raised the Son from the dead, the grace of God came.
The resurrected Jesus Christ became the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Faith (a noun)
The article spoke of the seed of Abraham, the Christ, relative to covenant salvation. That same seed is also the Son of God spoken of in the everlasting covenant, before the foundation of the world.
The seed of Abraham, would be, the faith of Abraham, whereby Abraham would be imputed with righteousness.
Abraham died in the faith to come.
And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous, and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, for ye are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus, for as many as to Christ were baptized did put on Christ; (the Faith) Gal 3:23-27 YLT
IMHO. Salvation is all of God. -
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The blood, that contained the life, therefore the precious blood, was the ransom paid, yet as 1 Cor 15:17 states if Christ be not raised that blood washed away no sins. For the blood to be effective, required regeneration, therefore,
by washing of regeneration and renewing of Holy Spirit we are saved.
That is speaking of the regeneration of Christ. IMO -
Earth Wind and Fire wrote
"Thats the most interesting thing to me....Mike Gowens deliberately details the theology but it is ignored or vilified.....nobody takes the time to dismantle it as if thtowing rocks at a barn will bring down the structure. Simply fascinating! Is there no one here with enough intellectual prowess to take it apart?!?"
Temporal Salvation is false if one concludes that an individual can be regenerated and never know that Christ died and rose again for their sins. The proof I offer? There is not one individual in the Post resurrection New Testament who died and was born again, but did not know who Jesus was!
If you really want a refutation of Gowens doctrine of temporal salvation please read this article by a Primitive Baptist elder from the 1800s. It is a free book and puts Gowens false doctrine to rest by disproving it from the Bible. http://www.mountzionpbc.org/books/boaz_salvation.htm -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
As far as Rips conserned, he is on ignore. One day he will figure out that that's why he doesn't get responded to. AINT LIFE GRAND:laugh: -
Of course, you'd have to learn how to handle 98°F days with 100% humidity to move down here. I used to work for a Penske Truck rental center and there was a gentleman from Hackensack who moved here in April. The day he arrived was actually above average by a bit for that time of year. It was about 85°F and the humidity was up. He asked me if it was always that hot. I just laughed and said "No sir, wait until August." -
The Primitives in general have given it their best shot to do this and rightly divide by making the distinction between eternal salvation (election, regeneration, etc.) and gospel salvation (obedience, belief, profession of Christ as LORD). A short easy read on this is another of Elder Mike Gowens' essays:
Born Again: The Doctrine of Effectual Calling
There also is a distinction to be made between the eternal and the temporal aspects of the kingdom, but that’s another topic. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Again, your definition of terms will actively define your interpretation of that scripture. It has been commented in the past on this forum that when the Bible says "the world," or it says "all men," it actually means only those elect of God. To some people that makes perfect scriptural sense. To others, like myself, it seems a cherry-picked method of interpretation. Of course, my partial-preterist eclectic amillennialism is considered a cherry-picked theology by a lot of people. You have to follow what you feel the Lord has led you to, so long as it is supported by the Scripture, which ought to be our final authority on pretty much all of these issues.
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"I believe there will be more in Heaven than in hell. If anyone asks me why I think so, I answer, because Christ, in everything, is to "have the preeminence," and I cannot conceive how He could have the preeminence if there are to be more in the dominions of Satan than in Paradise. Moreover, I have never read that there is to be in hell a great multitude, which no man could number." —Charles Spurgeon
The Autobiography of Charles H. Spurgeon: 1834-1854 -
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He says that the gate that "leads to life" is narrow and few will enter. What could he be talking about other then Himself, as He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life? -
Perhaps your partial preterist leaning will allow you another consideration on this. Mt 7:13-14 is prophetic, spoken by 'the Prophet, and directed to 'that generation' of Jews on whom the 'consummation of the age' was coming, most of whom which God was not well pleased, and He sware in His wrath that they would not enter into His rest, and they were broken off from the 'abundant life' of the New Covenant.
'Few are they that find it' is reminiscent of 'the Exodus (or wilderness) Generation' whose numbers have been estimated as high as 2.5 million and of which only two (2) (Joshua and Caleb) of that generation made it into the promised land. The rest entered not in because of unbelief. Even Moses and Aaron entered not in because of unbelief. The Exodus Generation is used several times as examples in the NT. I believe Christ is alluding to it here in the Sermon on the Mount. Few would be the Jews that would find or enter into the sabbath rest of Heb 4:9. -
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