The Church and the DEATH Penalty?

[kyredneck]

Yes, our system is broke as there are many more men than women on Death Row. This massive over-represenation of men should be enough to cause pause.

Well, the fact that men commit over three times the violent crime that women do may have something to do with that.

 

[Salty]

Well, the fact that men commit over three times the violent crime that women do may have something to do with that.

Bingo!!!...

 

[church mouse guy]

correct, and incorrect (bolded).
if I had my way, the term "cruel and unusual punishment" would be struck off in cases where the taking of life is involved (including abortion), and the punishment will be one which truly fits the crime, literally.
if the murder was committed slowly, then his life will be taken slowly, as in stoning.
(by a row of computerized slingshots that can throw 15-pound stones ? :laugh.
however, there is nothing in Scripture that says believers are to insist on the death penalty.
what is in scripture is to submit to authority, that is, be law-abiding, and I take that to include not agitating for the death penalty where such is not in a state, or country's, laws.
now, if an elected lawmaker should propose the institution or return whatever the case may be of such a punishment, then, by all means, throw him our support.
and I might include add a provision for a quick and thorough review of the investigative procedures and culling of evidences, and a quick process of appeals not to exceed 6 months, after which, if everything is satisfactory, then put the criminal out of his miserable existence.

Okay, should Christians insist that one should not steal or that one should not lie (that would really hurt out government)?

I have posted this so many times but I can't find where God ever set it aside. If you know, let me know.

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

 

[evenifigoalone]

"Lockett was executed for a crime he committed in 1999: he shot a nineteen-year-old girl named Stephanie Neiman with a sawed-off shotgun, and then he watched as a pair of accomplices buried her alive. Charles Warner, the inmate who was to be executed after Lockett, was convicted of raping and killing an eleven-month-old girl in 1997. “This is not about whether these two men are guilty; that is not in dispute,” Ryan Kiesel, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Oklahoma office, said in a statement. “Rather, it comes down to whether we trust the government enough to allow it to kill its citizens, even guilty ones, in a secret process.” Borrowed from the folling link - http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2014/04/witnesses-to-a-botched-execution.html

While I do support the death penalty theoretically, this (the part in bold) makes a good point. On the same vein, though, you could argue that it's part of the government's intended role in protecting the rights of it's citizens.



The reason I don't support it here and now would be that it's costly and ineffective, essentially. Keeping prisoners for 20 years before finally executing them costs some big bucks--that's taxpayers' money.
You could argue that that's because we hold them for so long, but...the reason that's done is in case the wrong person is convicted for a crime. And that does happen. If you just kill the man right away, you can't take it back just because you found out you were wrong and it was this other guy who should have been executed.

Plus according to this study, states with the death penalty actually have considerably higher homocide rates than states without the death penalty:
http://janda.org/c10/statisticsnews/NoDeathPenalty.htm

The dozen states that have chosen not to enact the death penalty since the Supreme Court ruled in 1976 that it was constitutionally permissible have not had higher homicide rates than states with the death penalty, government statistics and a new survey by The New York Times show.

Indeed, 10 of the 12 states without capital punishment have homicide rates below the national average, Federal Bureau of Investigation data shows, while half the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above the national average. In a state-by- state analysis, The Times found that during the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48 percent to 101 percent higher than in states without the death penalty.

Morally, I have no problem the death penalty. By violating the rights of another being, you give up your own.

 

[preachinjesus]

Yes, our system is broke as there are many more men than women on Death Row. This massive over-represenation of men should be enough to cause pause.

Bingo!!!...

I'd love to see the documentation that supports the vast majority of murders in the United States have been committed by poor and minority offenders.

Certainly your logic is heading here. However, what is startling about the death row cases is that 77% of those executed since the 70s have been for killing a white victim even though African Americans represent half of all homicide victims. Likewise, of death row inmates and executions, the majority since 1977 have been poor and minority inmates, including those sitting on death row now.

The greatest over-represenation of minorities includes:
U.S. Military Prison (86%)
Colorado (80%)
Federal Prison (77%)
Louisiana (72%)
Pennsylvania (70%)

Are we really saying that 86% of homicides in the military have been committed by poor and minority defendants? Or in Colorado?

Are you really comfortable saying that the overwhelming majority of homicides in the United States have been committed by the poor and those who are minorities?

 

[church mouse guy]

We are saying that some crime does not get investigated.

Hoosier Kin Hubbard once said something that is no longer true:

Now and then an innocent man is sent to the legislature.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Okay, should Christians insist that one should not steal or that one should not lie (that would really hurt out government)?

I have posted this so many times but I can't find where God ever set it aside. If you know, let me know.

Genesis 9:6 (KJV) Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Christians insist on a lot of things that they themselves are unable to sustain, so guess whose Name gets hurt when a vocal, visible "Christian" is proven to have stolen or lied ?
at any rate, how is your question related to my statement you quoted ?

 

[church mouse guy]

Christians insist on a lot of things that they themselves are unable to sustain, so guess whose Name gets hurt when a vocal, visible "Christian" is proven to have stolen or lied ?
at any rate, how is your question related to my statement you quoted ?

You said in part, "however, there is nothing in Scripture that says believers are to insist on the death penalty."

So I referenced that we were not supposed to steal and lie as examples of Mosaic Law that we still insist on although the government likes to lie and I quoted the law given to Noah and asked why that commandment should not be insisted upon since no one has shown me specifically where it has been overturned.

So it is related to your statement that says that we are not to insist upon the law.

 

[Revmitchell]

I'd love to see the documentation that supports the vast majority of murders in the United States have been committed by poor and minority offenders.

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~roos/Courses/grstat502/phillipssp802.pdf

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Of course. Haven't denied anything like that. It's just that the church age, and that is the topic of the OP, is not about vengeance. Sure, justice must be served, but why not make it swift an as humane as possible?

Neither was the command given Noah about "vengeance." It was about justice. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. So He didn't change his mind about how to administer justice or about letting man administer it through his civil and criminal law. Jesus never withdrew the death penalty.

And Lovett suffered a heart attack. It was not brought on by the administration of the drugs, because the drugs never reached him. The vein in which the needle was inserted collapsed. 400,000 men have on every year. Do we outlaw heart attacks? Never mind, it's a facetious question. The point is, much ado is being made about this being a "botched" execution, and it was not. The drugs never entered his system.

Maybe you'd have a case about "cruel and unusual" punishment if we were still frying them in electric chairs or poisoning them with hydrogen cyanide. Remember, God prescribed stoning, and again, God hasn't changed His mind about the administration of punishment.

If anything was botched Lovett's execution, it was the medical care he got just before he died, and I'm not going to cry over an unrepentant arrogant sinner whose main sin in life was to murder a young woman who refused to say she wasn't going to report him to the police for drug trafficking. Did you miss the part where he buried her alive after one of his thugs shot her?

If we're going to make noise about "compassion," let's first remember this murderer's victim!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

A point that seems to be consistently missed here is that I am not opposed to the death penalty. I don't know how much clearer to make it. I have said it over and over.

There is no need to seek vengeance through the method. Execute them quickly and as humanely as possible and let it be done.

 

[InTheLight]

However, what is startling about the death row cases is that 77% of those executed since the 70s have been for killing a white victim even though African Americans represent half of all homicide victims. Likewise, of death row inmates and executions, the majority since 1977 have been poor and minority inmates, including those sitting on death row now.

The greatest over-represenation of minorities includes:
U.S. Military Prison (86%)
Colorado (80%)
Federal Prison (77%)
Louisiana (72%)
Pennsylvania (70%)

Are we really saying that 86% of homicides in the military have been committed by poor and minority defendants? Or in Colorado?

No, the data is saying that 86% of those convicted of homicide were poor or minority defendants.

Are you really comfortable saying that the overwhelming majority of homicides in the United States have been committed by the poor and those who are minorities?

Again, this is not what is being stated.

Anyway, another clumsily worded poll from RD2. There is a place for the death penalty and it's not just for murder. In most cases I would prefer life imprisonment but in cases of multiple victims, acts of terrorism, treason, I would support the death penalty.