Boettner is correct for that point, and it is correct to assume that the future is predestined.
The future is indeed certain. However, it does not follow that because God knows the future with certainty that he directly caused all actions.
Why does "future is certain" = "predestined"?
One is the end result of something and the other is the cause.
They are very different.
It's like saying "I will sleep tonight" and then saying that "Joe made me sleep tonight" - two totally different things.
StefanM, what part of predestined did you miss?
If God predestined our thoughts and our actions, exhaustive determinism, as presented by Boettner, then He is the author of sin.
The language I would use is that God foreordained the future. I would not say that God predestined the future in the sense you are using. The future is predestined, but the acts of moral agents contribute to this.
:laugh:---Of course not my dear brother! Very impressive answers! But 2 b honest I do fear Mr Van might have bitten off more than he can chew with this thread! Even if I do disagree with the guy more times than not---this has the potential to turn real ugly----real fast! Even webdoggie knows better than 2 take it this far---(I love ya web no offense intended!)-lol
Your logic in this is flawed, specifically in that you don't understand what omniscience entails, and that your assumptive 'necessity' of it making God the 'cause' of sin is lacks credibility.
You seem to dismiss that ALL throughout church history (from the earliest church fathers writings) even up till present time, one of the main foundational doctrines of CHRISTIAN church (not just Calvinistic theology) has been the Omniscience (all knowingness of God). Non-Cals and Arminians has ALWAYS been in agreement with Cals regarding the general sense (not exhaustive sense you imply, whereby God is the causation of sin). The ONLY ones who hold to this view are Hyper-Calvinists.
If the future is not certain then there is no guarantee of the promised future things which God has decreed to be in His word. Not just what He will do, but also what men will do.
(that included that man would kill the Messiah of their own choice which God declared long before hand would happen)
You seem to be functioning under the misconception that determining is exhaustive in that God caused man to do what he does, including sin. Determining can be both active (God choosing to act) and passive (meaning He allows man to continue doing what he chooses).. but all of these work in accordance to His will/plan - working all things (good and bad) together for His glory.
You stand in a pagan view much like the Greeks and others who hold that the gods can not know all things.. only some small aspects and that is directly proportional to their actions and not the specific actions of men since that is unknown to them. The omniscience of God is a decidedly, historical, a pervasive view of the Christian doctrine that it is almost singularly unique to it (which includes the Jewish mindset as well)
Actually there are actually 1 or 2 on the BB (one inparticular) who DO state just that. Just wait long enough and they will begin posting on here. However I am surprised that you have not read them posting on this subject since they are very open about it and posting of it.
The future is foreordained but not predestined according to StefanM.
Lets see what these words mean according to the dictionary:
Gee my dictionary say to predestine is to foreordain.
And then it says foreordain means predestine.
So StefanM, please explain the distinction you are drawing as you seem to be using words in some special way.
Thanks Ann for agreeing that since God knows the future exhaustively, it is predestined exhaustively, each and every thought and action of each and every creature.
That makes God the author of sin.
Why don’t you explain the Greek to us Van—maybe you could enlighten us!!! Ok ok—I apologize a head of time—I said I was gonna leave u alone—but I just couldn’t resist!