The eternal subordination of the Word.

Again, are you denying that the Word was really "with the God?" John 1:2.

 

really? and where did you read this?

 

you cannot read! I quoted from #33, "eternal subordination", which means "from eternity past". what you have quoted is from Jesus Incarnation! temporary subordination.

 

I do not. I believe I made it clear I understand the Word to be an uncused Person with God as well as being God.

Also the Word as God is the sole cause of all caused things, John 1:3, therefore is uncaused.

 

You deny that the Word being with the God is to be subordinate, have you not?

 

Two things here. You are correct about the preincarnate Christ being YHWH. John 8:24.
But as for Hebrews 13:8, it is my understanding this refers to the post incarnation, post resurrected Christ.

 

My origianal post #1 was expliciit. Pick one statement from that post you think is fales and give a simple proof.

 

But in your earlier post you seemed to equate uncaused with uncreated, seeming to suggest that if the word of God had a car that would necessarily mean the word of God was created

 

I can read just fine. Are you suggesting that the word of God ceased to be eternal at the Incarnation? Seems you are introducing static into what scripture calls a hypostatic union

 

where did you read this?

 

then your understaning is faulty!

 

1000%

 

You are thinking the Word is uncreated but caused. My thinking being what is created is caused. So it is my understanding that the Word is the uncused Cause, John 1:3 on the behalf of God being God, John 1:1. So I understand the Word to have no beginning therefore being uncaused.

 

I didn't read it.

I asked are you suggesting it
Maybe you can't read

 

I'm just wondering why you think caused = created

I'm thinking of God speaking. He caused His voice to go out, but He didn't create His voice

 

I “tend” toward this belief. The self-identification of God as Father, Son, Holy Spirit suggests eternal subordination.

John 1:18, says “No man hath seen God at anytime...”

How can this statement be consistent with Adam walking in garden with God? With all the appearances of God as a “man” in OT?

It seems reasonable to me that John is saying no man has ever seen one specific person within the Godhead, God the Father. No man could see Him and live.

All the appearances of God in the OT is of the second person of the Godhead. That is the role of the Eternal Son.

When I was in seminary, we called it the “economy” of the Godhead. Each person within the Godhead had a specific role to accomplish the will of God.

Again, functional eternal subordination doesn’t mean greater or lesser persons within the Godhead.

peace to you

 

Why? Saying my understanding is faulty does not make that so. Fact: Hebrews 13:8 was written post incarnation and post resurrection. What proof do you have that "yesterday" must mean past "eternity?" It was the Word who changed to become the man Jesus Christ from eternity. Do you really believe Jesus Christ as the Word was eternally a man prior to His incarnation?

 

We may disagree. I am of the understanding that the Word is the sole cause of all caused things on behalf of God as God per John 1:3 so the Word Himself is uncaused.

 

excludes equality. this should be the starting point.

 

well, if you can read and understand what I have written, you would not ask if I am suggesting this! :rolleyes: