Your argument is with Paul, not me. Paul said governing authorities were from God and he laid out the principles that guide them. They are indeed biblical principles. We can apply them to governments and judge which ones are following and which ones aren't.
This is all semantics. If you support the GOP's policies of nationalism, life, etc., you support the GOP. You're no better than any other GOP supporter.
The Heresy of Ideological Religion
Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by FollowTheWay, Jan 12, 2018.
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Carter: I do not judge whether someone else is a Christian. Jesus said, “Judge not, …”
Kristof:One of my problems with evangelicalism is that it normally argues that one can be saved only through a personal relationship with Jesus, which seems to consign Gandhi to hell. Do you believe that?
Carter: I do not feel qualified to make a judgment. I am inclined to give him (or others) the benefit of any doubt.
Opinion | President Carter, Am I a Christian?
Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me." Jimmy Carter says we can't judge whether or not someone who denies the resurrection is saved. Not only that, but we can't make a judgment regarding the salvation of those who reject Christ.
This is why I said I'd rather stand with Christ. We can't stand with both. Do you share Carter's doubts and lack of discernment regarding these things? -
I support the GOP's stance against abortion. This is not a support for the GOP but an affirmation that their and our (Christian) interest meet on some points. I really don't care about most other points. -
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Carter gave an unbiblical answer. We are told to have an answer (or "apology") for the faith that is in us. If we cannot stand firm on Christ and the Resurrection, then were exactly are we to stand?
Carter gave a political answer. (I'm not questioning his salvation, but his stand). -
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And you are thoroughly confused about what the Bible says about the function of governing authorities. It's very simple. Protect the innocent, punish the guilty—Romans 13.
The bible is pro death penalty for the guilty and pro-life for the innocent. This is the function of government. Not much else matters to me.
And this all rests of the foundation of nationalism created at Babel when God created the nations. Christians are not globalists, they are nationalists (taxes, customs, fear and honor - Romans 13:7). We respect and honor the borders that keep the nations separate, just as God designed. -
You assume a nationalism foreign to Scripture - even with Israel. You assume one who opposes abortion must support the GOP to that end. You seem to confuse the principles regarding Christian submission and obedience to secular government with nationalization rather than the witness of the believer. -
And regarding your witness, that's an aspect of testimony. You cannot separate witness from testimony, and you cannot separate testimony from morality and you cannot separate morality from politics. Many try but it can't be done. If the GOP is fitting for life, I'm with the GOP. If I turn my back on the unborn, I destroy my testimony and witness. -
The reason the languages were “confused” was not to establish national boundaries. At the time of Genesis 11 the whole world had one language. As men moved eastward they settled settled in Babylonia. There they sought to construct a great city and tower.This is common to ANE religion as people built cities (typically temple cities) and ziggurats in order for the god to come down and dwell among the people. The events of Genesis 11 predate ANE ziggurats, but the concept is most likely the same – that is, to re-create a garden (or Eden) state where God once again dwells with man.
The scattering of Genesis 11 was not (according to Scripture) an establishment of the principle of nationalization but rather a response to the disobedience of men who were commanded to “increase in number and fill the earth” (Genesis 9:19). Rather than doing this they settled in Shinar and God scattered them.
Which is why I suggested (I thought kindly) that you study Scripture more and secular politics less.
The irony here is that you are unable to name even one biblical principle, command, or value that I have opposed on this thread except that I do not believe the GOP to be a Christian organization. Yet you complain when I note that there are some people who seem to believe one political party or another is an extension of the Christian faith. -
What it does say is that God wanted to separate mankind to prevent them from what they could do united. That's directly from the text.
"Indeed the people are one...now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
We see the benefit of this when God was able to take out Sodom without taking out the rest of the world. The cultures were separated and quarantined in a sense.
The fact is, God separated the nations and the Devil has been trying to reunite them ever since. The culmination of his efforts will be realized in end times when anti-Christ takes control of the nations. If you're caught up in globalism you're going down a very dangerous path. From GotQuestions.org:
The Bible, therefore, shows that any time man attempts “globalization” it is ruled by wicked, ungodly empires. We should oppose globalization to the extent that we understand that it is implemented by Satan, currently the god of this age (2 Corinthians 4:4). It is interesting to note that man’s (and Satan’s) final attempt at globalization will include a resurgence of “Babylon,” which started the globalization effort so long ago (see Revelation 18).
In fact I would argue that we as Christians should be much more worried about globalism than even social issues like abortion. Abortion is evil, but imagine how evil things will get if the peoples unite once again. "nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them." -
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The idea was not building Eden out of stone. The ANE idea was to build a city of God.
Scripture is absent the idea God designed nationalism. It is absent the idea Satan has been trying to unite nations in opposition to God's dividing of people.
Instead Scripture says God commanded men to inhabit the earth, men refused, and God scattered them. -
You're not alone in your error, especially in this day and age, but you are in error. -
But if you do not see the reasons Scripture itself gives for paying taxes and rendering honor then you need to revisit the topic. -
I'd like to go deeper into this. I'd like to challenge you even on the issue of criticizing presidencies. I think the structure of our government allows us to criticize presidents (mere appointed office holders) if it's done correctly, without violating Scriptural principles. I'll appreciate your return challenges. Gotta run, unfortunately.....
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